Hi and help on hive selection, to polyhive or not and what's wrong with langstroths!

[wightbees]

Not tried those poly boxes, what are they like?

 

[Anduril]

Not tried those poly boxes, what are they like?

Same internal dimensions, but it is 500mm external dimensions as opposed to 460mm. They are lighter and quicker to assemble.

 

[simoncav]

Some areas of the country favour langstroth and others Nationals. Here in Hampshire we do have a lot of Langstroths historically as that is what was used within the old agricultural colleges that previously taught beekeeping. Also the slightly bigger hive size can work in your favour a little bit regarding reducing some swarms from colonies that build up fast in the Spring as well as generating bigger harvests from fewer boxes.

I'm had poly Langstroth hives for about 9 years and would never go back to wood. Warm, dry bees are happy bees!

 

[linoleum bonypart]

I think best deals now will be at shows etc

 

[Anduril]

Back on the PC.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172529648086?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Deeps too.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172529643104?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Roof..http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182453836304?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

If it was free p&p that would be a good offer.

 

[Swarm]

I had doubts about poly seconds, don't think I'd want to be gluing bits back together and filling.
I'll stick with 'deal' supers, they're not seconds just pine.

 

[Cussword]

If it was free p&p that would be a good offer.

Yup, that is a bit of a downer. Although I would buy all three, plus a couple more shallows and combine postage.

 

[Cussword]

I had doubts about poly seconds, don't think I'd want to be gluing bits back together and filling.

I use the same adhesive that Derek M recommends to make the Celotex cosies..Glues and fills.

It's horses for courses Steve.

 

[Swarm]

It's horses for courses Steve.

Yep.

 

[kevrhcfag]

It really is down to you, how you want to work, health, strength etc. There are a lot of choices and a fair few set in their ways so the advice can be endless, confusing and very frustrating.

As far as the association and poly, ignore them we run both no issues and the bees don't care either way.

Unless you are going to have lots of hives for the most part hobby keepers will run nationals as the most popular size and bees come on the most part on those frames. Haven't run Langstroths but widely used and a lot more suppliers so if using a lot you can get things cheaper.

If going national you have 4 choices.
Single Brood
Double Brood
14 x 12
Brood and a half ( which is basically 14 x 12 ish)

Most modern bees will fill up single brood so you might get away with it, but doubtful.

Double brood will cope, box can get heavy if filled with honey, plenty of choices on manipulations, snelgrove, demarree, splits etc.

14 x 12 Size OK can get heavy, vertical manipulations can get awkward if vertically challenged and not strong. Also makes further inspections painful. Inspections can be fun with lots of bees on a fairly large frames.

Brood and a half, got knows someone will be along to say what a great system it is. I suspect invented because didn't want to buy a 2nd brood box.

Poly you have the same options in reality.

Sweinty - Same footprint as wood everything fits but 1 frame less, doesn't make a great deal of difference on double brood.

Paynes - same number of frames but footprint bigger so cant use wooden roofs.

Maisemore - don't know but appears same as Paynes?

Abelo - same footprint and frame number?

Couple of others aswell.


Either way get a spare roof, floor and BB. Nuc is a great tool first starting as inspection take ages and a nice safe place to put frame with queen on out of harms way.

Poly is softer can get more easily damaged by hive tool and a bugger when stuck together.

Seconds are exactly as described damaged / incorrect goods, the beekeeping market is a strange one in the fact that people save up and queue to buy them so the suppliers have a ready made market for these products.

Personally if starting from scratch I would go poly with standard foot print, but you will get someone who would recommend every possible scenario from the above ( and a few more) if you spoke to enough beekeepers.

 

[user 6228]

this cross section of a poly hive similar to a sweinty national shows the disadvantage of making the external dimensions the same as wood, i.e. you get the same fault as the wood hive of extra heat loss near the rails because the thickness is restricted to 12mm at the hottest part of the hive.

 

[Swarm]

Sweinty - Same footprint as wood everything fits but 1 frame less, doesn't make a great deal of difference on double brood.

It's an advantage with double brood

 

[Willardx]

It really is down to you, how you want to work, health, strength etc. There are a lot of choices and a fair few set in their ways so the advice can be endless, confusing and very frustrating.

As far as the association and poly, ignore them we run both no issues and the bees don't care either way.

Unless you are going to have lots of hives for the most part hobby keepers will run nationals as the most popular size and bees come on the most part on those frames. Haven't run Langstroths but widely used and a lot more suppliers so if using a lot you can get things cheaper.

If going national you have 4 choices.
Single Brood
Double Brood
14 x 12
Brood and a half ( which is basically 14 x 12 ish)

Most modern bees will fill up single brood so you might get away with it, but doubtful.

Double brood will cope, box can get heavy if filled with honey, plenty of choices on manipulations, snelgrove, demarree, splits etc.

14 x 12 Size OK can get heavy, vertical manipulations can get awkward if vertically challenged and not strong. Also makes further inspections painful. Inspections can be fun with lots of bees on a fairly large frames.

Brood and a half, got knows someone will be along to say what a great system it is. I suspect invented because didn't want to buy a 2nd brood box.

Poly you have the same options in reality.

Sweinty - Same footprint as wood everything fits but 1 frame less, doesn't make a great deal of difference on double brood.

Paynes - same number of frames but footprint bigger so cant use wooden roofs.

Maisemore - don't know but appears same as Paynes?

Abelo - same footprint and frame number?

Couple of others aswell.


Either way get a spare roof, floor and BB. Nuc is a great tool first starting as inspection take ages and a nice safe place to put frame with queen on out of harms way.

Poly is softer can get more easily damaged by hive tool and a bugger when stuck together.

Seconds are exactly as described damaged / incorrect goods, the beekeeping market is a strange one in the fact that people save up and queue to buy them so the suppliers have a ready made market for these products.

Personally if starting from scratch I would go poly with standard foot print, but you will get someone who would recommend every possible scenario from the above ( and a few more) if you spoke to enough beekeepers.

Wow, cheers for taking the time on that. I am fairly sure now I am going to go for a couple of abelo nationals. I I go for the ones with 2 supers, are any other hive parts recommended to get started. For example I have spoken to some people who recommend a spare brood box etc. Ta

 

[kevrhcfag]

Wow, cheers for taking the time on that. I am fairly sure now I am going to go for a couple of abelo nationals. I I go for the ones with 2 supers, are any other hive parts recommended to get started. For example I have spoken to some people who recommend a spare brood box etc. Ta

Depends on what bees your intending to get another minefield full of personal advice.

I would say though I wouldn't buy just 1 single standard brood box. You would probably get away with it this year if buying 2017 Queen and Nucs June ish. If most bees you will definitely need double brood for next season.

 

[Willardx]

I am just going to get a swarm collected by local association and take it from there.

 

[Willardx]

Eeeeek, discuss! They seem more robust looking and are wood compatible. That was my reasoning?

 

[kevrhcfag]

I am just going to get a swarm collected by local association and take it from there.

Thats fine, depends on size, caste etc.

But totally unknown quantity and people will say fine thats how I started etc. personally ( a bit vested interested) I would buy a decent queen and requeen, but another minefield.

 

[Willardx]

Interesting. How much would a new queen set me back, or is that like asking how much a car costs!

 

[kevrhcfag]

£35 - £40

Its all good as long as you manage to requeen them!

 

[user 6228]

Why why?

because its not simple straightforward process with a 100% succeess rate or anything near it.
I would stick with the queen that comes with the swarm and just observe, and if they decide to supercede let them and observe.... after all if you are a beginner, the bees are the experts in your apiary