Help, i think they're a bit aggressive

[Griffiths]

Hello all,

I was wondering if anybody would be able to help me. I'm only just getting into keeping bees and although I've done the research, I know that it can never fully prepare you for the field work involved. I need the advice from experienced keepers in a situation like this.

I recently got an established hive, which I'm told produced 110lb of honey in the preseli hills last year, and contains last years queen. Before bringing the hive home, the original keeper removed a super full of honey. The hive now consists of 1 brooder, 1 super.

Once placed we unplugged and left it 24 hours before disturbing again. Watching the bees we saw hundreds hovering outside at one time. We phoned the seller to sort an issue and he concluded the phone call by saying ""they can get quite a bit agitated". ((WARNING BELLS!))

24 hours passed, inspection time. I removed the lid gently and the crown board, thousands of bees swarmed out of the hive, following me the way across the courtyard and stinging family members nearby. I can't even walk near the hive.


- Why are the bees aggressive ? you can not even walk near them!

- I'm not sure what species they are is there a way to tell?

- Will the bees calm down once they know the area and was it wise for the super to be removed before transporting the bees? Has this made them aggressive ?

- Should I change my queen? if so what type of queen?
I have read a lot of posts and one answer seems to be 'join your local bee keeping club' that's not going to happen here, they want £100s and one year working as an unpaid apprentice me before they may grant me permission to keep my own hive .
I don't work like that, and anyway to to late !!

looking forward to reading the replies

 

[drex]

Bee behaviour can vary with stress on the bees ( bad weather, end of flow, low stores, upset of being jolted about etc).
With the sellers remark together with your experience on opening them, I would say these bees are innately feisty bees, but to be sure only time will tell, unless you and your family have decided you have already had enough.
Could you move them somewhere they can do no harm? when you next open them make sure you have plenty of layers under your suit and no gaps, and that your family are indoors.

If they are aggressive you will get advice on here as to how best to deal with them.
Help from an experienced keeper by your side would be useful.

 

[Repwoc]

I have read a lot of posts and one answer seems to be 'join your local bee keeping club' that's not going to happen here, they want £100s and one year working as an unpaid apprentice me before they may grant me permission to keep my own hive .

According to their How To Join page, membership of Pembrokeshire BKA starts at £25 for up to three hives and includes the whole family at the membership address.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Hello all,

I was wondering if anybody would be able to help me. I'm only just getting into keeping bees and although I've done the research, I know that it can never fully prepare you for the field work involved. I need the advice from experienced keepers in a situation like this.

I recently got an established hive, which I'm told produced 110lb of honey in the preseli hills last year, and contains last years queen. Before bringing the hive home, the original keeper removed a super full of honey. The hive now consists of 1 brooder, 1 super.

Once placed we unplugged and left it 24 hours before disturbing again. Watching the bees we saw hundreds hovering outside at one time. We phoned the seller to sort an issue and he concluded the phone call by saying ""they can get quite a bit agitated". ((WARNING BELLS!))

24 hours passed, inspection time. I removed the lid gently and the crown board, thousands of bees swarmed out of the hive, following me the way across the courtyard and stinging family members nearby. I can't even walk near the hive.


- Why are the bees aggressive ? you can not even walk near them!

- I'm not sure what species they are is there a way to tell?

- Will the bees calm down once they know the area and was it wise for the super to be removed before transporting the bees? Has this made them aggressive ?

- Should I change my queen? if so what type of queen?
I have read a lot of posts and one answer seems to be 'join your local bee keeping club' that's not going to happen here, they want £100s and one year working as an unpaid apprentice me before they may grant me permission to keep my own hive .
I don't work like that, and anyway to to late !!

looking forward to reading the replies

First of all did the original keeper keep (retain) the super full of honey? Was he/she a no queen excluder beekeeper so could the colony now be queen less? Were you advised about the risks of keeping bees at home in a garden and the need (in general) to wear protection when opening up a hive?
Having been through the trauma of relocation immediately following the disruption of removal of a super I'd not be poking about in the hive so soon, especially as a beginner with perhaps a less than gentle technique. I teach my new keepers to aim for inspecting so smoothly the bees don't realise they've been in until it's all over.
I'm amazed at a beekeeping association wanting large sums of money and free labour for a year in the way you describe. Are you sure about your facts or is some exaggeration creeping in?

 

[Griffiths]

Hi everyone, thanks for getting back to me. Very helpful really appreciate the advice

We definitely want to keep the bees we've got our hearts set on them, we do have a full bee suit! lol.

Yes, the seller kept the super. It was removed before we got there. We think there's a queen separator but couldn't get past the super to check.

About the association, I'm not 100% on the figures (never let the truth get in the way of a good story !!) we spoke to the man who runs the club directly, he wouldn't let us join until we'd completed his course, told us we are not "allowed" bees until we've done so. Maybe there is more than one association ??

We'd love to find an experienced bee keeper local to us, but Pembrokeshire is a small place so might be hard to find !

I'll leave them alone to see if they calm down a bit and will come back to you all for some advice if need be. thanks again

 

[enrico]

Can you just answer me one question. Was this the first time in your life you have ever opened a hive? I am not going to critisise I just want to get a feel for the situation before I answer. I do hope someone close offers help, it is a good forum in that way.
E

 

[Griffiths]

Can you just answer me one question. Was this the first time in your life you have ever opened a hive? I am not going to critisise I just want to get a feel for the situation before I answer. I do hope someone close offers help, it is a good forum in that way.
E

Yes this is a first for us. We have been watching loads of videos on how to do it and we were very gentle.

 

[enrico]

Try reading my blog, there are a few pointers on there that may help
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/blog.php?u=4807
E

 

[enrico]

You can see if there is a queen excluder as there will be an extra piece of wood or a sheet of plastic or metal between the two boxes.
Did you pay money for bees? Taking on a huge hive that has just been robbed of all it's honey and then moved to a new spot sounds a little scary! I take it the entrance has been opened since the move?
Lots of questions I am afraid but we need to know!
E

 

[Griffiths]

Hi Enrico questions are great we appreciate the help, definitely will take a look at your blog TY . just had a close look (with the binoculars) I'm pretty sure theirs a queen excluder, one of the metal sheet ones, you can see the edge of it between the brooder and the super. The seller said to unplugged the front a little while after we got them home. We did pay for the bees, the advert said it was coming with both supers, only when we got home did we noticed he'd kept one! We called him and he explained he'd reduced the price by £75 because he was keeping it. We weren't too happy that he only explained that AFTER the sale lol, but for £175 including the hive thought I shouldn't be too picky ..

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

There are a lot of scaly characters down that way.
PBKA is a good BKA actually, don't know who you spoke to but I would just contact Diane Corbett, the secretary and discuss membership.
https://pbka.info/

 

[Griffiths]

Diolch yn fawr iawn,

I'll be sure to give the association another try.

 

[enrico]

Be aware..... You do need some help from someone..... All hives of bees should come with a mentor. If I was selling bees to someone with absolutely no experience I would ensure that I was prepared to help them out or give them a taster session first! All your life you have been taught to avoid creatures that sting and here you are with 60000 of them in your gardenl
Just for your info, if you have been sold a hive from hell then requeening is the best way to go but you WILL need help to do this, it can be tough for a seasoned beekeeper, let alone a beginner.
I am afraid the cost of £175 for a brood, super and bees would have rung alarm bells for most beekeepers.
Now your main problem is not getting scared of these bees and giving up before you start. I wish I was closer to help you out but I am really hoping someone will come forward over the next few days from the forum. Keep your eyes on the post just in case including your private message folder.
I personally think the supplier should be named and shamed! I trust it was not a professional!
E

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

£200 ish seems to be the going rate down there at the moment (and usually the price that kind of setup would have gone for if there had been an auction in the spring) As I said, there's a few cowboys down that way which is probably why the area has been a hotspot for AFB for as long as I can remember. In fact, they've had another case this year.

 

[user 6228]

If the bees have had a major disturbance it needs more than 24 hours for them to calm down. I leave at least 4 days. Even a docile colony needs time.

 

[joelsoo]

Hi everyone, thanks for getting back to me. Very helpful really appreciate the advice

We definitely want to keep the bees we've got our hearts set on them, we do have a full bee suit! lol.

Yes, the seller kept the super. It was removed before we got there. We think there's a queen separator but couldn't get past the super to check.

About the association, I'm not 100% on the figures (never let the truth get in the way of a good story !!) we spoke to the man who runs the club directly, he wouldn't let us join until we'd completed his course, told us we are not "allowed" bees until we've done so. Maybe there is more than one association ??

We'd love to find an experienced bee keeper local to us, but Pembrokeshire is a small place so might be hard to find !

I'll leave them alone to see if they calm down a bit and will come back to you all for some advice if need be. thanks again

Hi, i do feel the association is correct, u should not be keeping bees until u had completed a course. which involves practical and theory. Tho not completely necessary if u have someone to guide you but it seems you had jumped in the deep end without a lifeguard to ensure u don't drown.

keeping bees is like looking after a baby. yes u can be chucked with baby and learn the ropes but at the expense that baby suffers. if you attend antenetal courses before hand or have an experience person to guide u, it makes a world of difference to look after.

back to your hive, it bay be the bees are stressed from the relocation as mentioned by others or he could have had enough of that hive and deliberately sold you a hive from hell. it would well be the latter... (a neighbour at my allotment have had a hive from hell too, and had ALOT of complaints. worst it took us multiple attempts to find the queen to kill and get her replace to tame the hive) in that long requeening process we did contempelate to sell it.... but luckily we didnt as we don't want others getting hurt.
you did'nt mention if you use a smoker? did you? as a few puffs of smoke could make a big difference interms of opening the hive "cold" where bees could just go in full defence mode.

hope someone near you can give you some guidance but a course (to me) does make a big difference in terms of your understanding of bees, before you get hands on with them.

i may get hammered by others for going on and on about attending a course. whilst some might say its not necessary i look at it like driving, yes you can skip the lessons and go straight to driving, but that does not necessarily make you a good driver without the understanding of the highway code, right of way, meanings of all the various road signs etc.. with just driving on the roads without the theory background.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Hi, i do feel the association is correct.

why?just because you say so? Never did a course, many other good beekeepers I know haven't either, and to be honest, much of the teaching I have witnessed, you'd be better off not attending.
To say you can't join an association until you've done a course is absolute rubbish.
In actual fact, if you read the relevant page on their website it says, if you've already got bees but need more training, then jon.

 

[Griffiths]

I do see the value of taking a course, but it's not for us, we're the kind of people that like to be thrown in at the deep end. Although we've never had bees we've kept all sorts of livestock and pets, Hannah my wife has years of farming experience, we've run a successful poultry business and hobby bread dogs and cats. I know bees are unique but with a lot of research and hopefully some support from you nice people I think we'll manage

If the bees have had a major disturbance it needs more than 24 hours for them to calm down. I leave at least 4 days. Even a docile colony needs time.

Lesson learnt!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Get some decent books. Hayness beekeeping manual is a good start, then move on to Hooper and De Bruyn. After that, when you have got a firm grounding get reading some of the classics (a bit dated, they hadn't heard of varroa but still a wealth of knowledge) such as ROB Manley and the rev. JG Digges' 'Practical Bee Guide' first published nearly 120 years ago but still being reprinted and still on the 'go to' list for many serious beekeepers.

 

[Griffiths]

Thank you I'll have a look at them ..

Right now we've been reading Ted Hoopers guide to bees / honey and Beekeeping by Joanna Ryde

The bees are a lot calmer today, less of them buzzing around the entrance, we've seen them on our buddleia, and we've seen them coming and going with pollen to the hive. And so far none of us have been stung I swear they're more like wasps than bees