Getting the honey weight right

[VEG]

Ok how the hell do you get exactly 1lb of honey into the jars?
I am either under filling or over filling, as I have tried filling the jar while on the scale and its either over or under. Could I use a syringe?

 

[match]

As far as I understand it, its against the law to underfill, but not to overfill. I think most folk just fill one exactly, figure out what height that comes to, then fill just a bit above that line on all the other jars. At the end if you're feeling paranoid you can re-weigh each jar (having first worked out the weight of an empty one) and any which are underweight top up with a spoonful or so.

The full (gory) details of honey labelling are here:

http://www.britishbee.org.uk/articles/honey_labels.php

I could be pedantic and point out that you need to stop saying 1lb jars, and start saying 454g jars

 

[VEG]

Not a bit of help really as have you tried to get a bit of honey off a spoon into a jar without making a mess?
As i asked about getting honey into the jars not about the labelling. Also jars vary in weight by a few grams.
As for saying 1lb the manufacturers of jars still sell them as 1lb jars so tell them to change their web sites.
If you look at the site you linked to at the bottom it allows lb as well

 

[m100]

Fill to the point at which, when looking from the side you wouldn't be able to see the airspace above the top of the honey when the lid is fitted.

If you are selling rather than giving it away you have to ensure you meet the minimum weight stated on the jar, therefore 'overfilling' is a requirement rather than an error.

Since the change to the packing and labelling regulations early this year there is nothing to stop you putting 453g in a '1lb jar' as long as it is labelled accordingly

 

[VEG]

Taken from the site linked to above

"The permitted metric and imperial units applicable to honey sales and their symbols are:

Unit of measurement
symbol

kilogram
kg

gram
g

pound
lb

ounce
oz"

So can someone please tell me how they get the right weight in their jars. Without too much mess.

 

[Frisbee]

It is actually illegal to sell overweight as well as underweight.......

Veg - try warming the honey for a short blast in the microwave, not to get it hot but to warm it under blood heat so it is more runny and therefore easier to handle, you also need a good plastic jug with a spout.. You can spoon or ladle the honey into the jug, maybe 30 seconds or so in the microwave, stir to distribute and pour. You will soon know how long to microwave for. The alternative is to use a warming cabinet.

To be the best help you need scales you can "tare", so you put the jar on press the tare button and the scales recallibrate to show the weight as zero. You should also be using standard jars - not everyone elses used ones and they will all be the same weight.
The scales I use I bought years ago and were in excess of £250 but these days they are a lot cheaper. A good set is well worth it for making the job hassle free.

Frisbee

 

[Widdershins]

Veg
I wholeheartedly agree with Frisbee - can you zero the scales with the jar on? Its what Ive been doing. Also, Ive warmed the jars in an oven (after sterilising to keep them sterile) and pour the honey whilst warm....I nearly always go over slightly, but for me, its the best way to ensure the correct weight is met.
Hope it helps.

 

[VEG]

Hi Frisbee
The jars are all new ones and having weighed 10 or so out of curiosity they do vary by a couple of grams. As I am hoping to be selling some of my honey I just need to make sure I am well within the laws, hence me asking about a syringe as it would be a perfect and relatively hassle free way of topping up or removing any excess honey. I dont have any handy though so thought somebody may have tried one. Dont know if it would be too thick to suck up though.

 

[Poly Hive]

It is as illegal to under fill as to over fill.

A syringe works well actually.

I have a very accurate bottling machine for hire?

PH

 

[Frisbee]

Hi Frisbee
The jars are all new ones and having weighed 10 or so out of curiosity they do vary by a couple of grams. As I am hoping to be selling some of my honey I just need to make sure I am well within the laws, hence me asking about a syringe as it would be a perfect and relatively hassle free way of topping up or removing any excess honey. I dont have any handy though so thought somebody may have tried one. Dont know if it would be too thick to suck up though.

Sorry - mentioning second hand jars was bordering on being rude and I didn't mean to be. I think the tiny weight variation in the jars is miniscule and wouldn't be held against you. A teaspoon is good for adding or removing, generally the contents of a teaspoon weigh around 5 grammes. My scales which are weights and measured stamped only go up in 5gm increments anyway so you would be within the law probably if that was all that was wrong, but you could if you tried probably get up to 20gm difference in a jar and that would be wrong. Yes a syringe too, but I guess the honey would definately need to be warmed for that. I have a good one I'm using for the thymol treatment it holds 20ml, nice and chunky, I got it from a vet........unused

Frisbee

 

[Rosti]

Veg, you are fully entitled to operate to average weight as any other producer big or small does. In summary you dont have to hit the declared weight bang on every time and dispite popular misconception you dont have to use the 'e' mark - export obligation only. You do (as with any other weights and measures) have to be able to prove your scales are accurate. If you have difficulty sleeping you can enjoy the full SI [Statutory Instrument 2006 No. 659 The Weights and Measures (Packaged Goods) Regulations 2006]

There are 3 rules in summary. In terms of sampling you could weigh them all (with an average tare weight for your jar subtracted), alternatively for a small producer a 1 in 5 sample plan for runs less than 1000 jars would be entirely reasonable.

1. The average weight of the pack for that packing/bottling run must be equal to or greater than the declared pack weight
2. No more than 1 in 40 packs can be lighter than the T1 weight
3. No packs may be lighter than the T2 weight

Product weight is defined as that in the pack (net) rather than gross. The prospect of prosecution for over weight in the case of a roughly correctly sized honey jar is not even on the scale of probability.

P.S. how spiteful of you to deliberately plant a thread so that the day job spills over into my hobby, shame on you!

 

[crazy_bull]

It is as illegal to under fill as to over fill.

A syringe works well actually.

I have a very accurate bottling machine for hire?

PH

What make/model have you got? i have been toying with the idea for a while, but wanted 1st hand recommendations.

Re - filling jars

It comes with experience, work out what level on the jar and repeat, a few grams either way is permitted. I find a tap (like on settling tanks etc) is the best dispensing method as you can open them a small ammount if needed.

I think a syringe would work well for removing/filling small ammounts of honey.


C B

 

[Poly Hive]

I don't have it to hand but it is very accurate for pound and half pounds. The tank holds some 50 lbs, and can bottle at least a pound a minute.

I can't find it on line so it must now be discontinued.

PH

 

[m100]

It is actually illegal to sell overweight as well as underweight.......

I'd believe you... if you could turn up a link to the relevant legislation, but I doubt you could.

 

[VEG]

Frisbee no offence at all taken about used jars. My family all give back the jars they have been given for a refill after being washed out of course, but all jars to be sold will be in new jars.

So in summary the jars can be a gram or two either way as long as the average is maintained. Think I got it right.

These rules and regs need doing in lay mans terms so the likes of me can understand them easier lol

 

[victor meldrew]

As far as I understand it, its against the law to underfill, but not to overfill. I think most folk just fill one exactly, figure out what height that comes to, then fill just a bit above that line on all the other jars. At the end if you're feeling paranoid you can re-weigh each jar (having first worked out the weight of an empty one) and any which are underweight top up with a spoonful or so.

The full (gory) details of honey labelling are here:

http://www.britishbee.org.uk/articles/honey_labels.php

I could be pedantic and point out that you need to stop saying 1lb jars, and start saying 454g jars

I think there has been a re-think in Europe, regards imperial weights and measures .

John Wilkinson

 

[hedgerow pete]

i use a large jug and a large syringe this hold 50ml and its what i use to top up the jar
with , i sell most of mine so i have a good set of scales brought on fleabay they only do up to 2kilos but with great precision

 

[VEG]

Thanks for the replies.

 

[Frisbee]

I'd believe you... if you could turn up a link to the relevant legislation, but I doubt you could.

Well I'm sure I could.......if only I could be bothered. It'll be under the false representation bit.

Having sold weighed goods and measured goods at shows for many years I've met more than my fair share of Trading Standards officers who tell the same story, so I have no reason to disbelieve it, you can please yourself.

Frisbee

 

[Hivemaker.]

Weight control

Honey can be filled to either minimum quantity (each jar should be at or above the declared weight), or to average weight.

For minimum weight, each jar or container must be individually weighed on a scale that has been tested and approved for trade use.

For average weight, there are certain rules - the 'packers rules' - which must be followed. These allow for some weights to be a certain amount below the weight shown on the jar, provided that the average weight is equal to or above that weight. If you feel you need a copy of the packers rules, please ask your local trading standards service.

The easiest thing to do is to fill each jar either by eye or on a scale, then check a few from each batch and make sure that the weights are all at or above the weight declared. For this check, you should use a scale which you know is accurate - a stamped shop scale is ideal. You must remember to take away the weight of the empty jar and lid. To get this tare weight, weigh ten jars plus lids and use the weight of the heaviest.

If you find that some of the weights of full jars are low, you will need to weigh every jar from that batch, and remove all the ones that are low. You can then top these up and re-check them.

You should keep a note of the checks you have made, which should include the time and date of weighings, the weights found, and what the weight should have been. You should keep the record of these checks for a year.

The number of jars you need to check will vary with the size of the batch. For guidance, it is likely to be sufficient to check three out of batches of 50 jars or less, five out of batches between 50 and 100, and seven or eight for batches of over 100.