Get Yourself An Epipen.

[garethbryson]

I have taken up beekeping this year, i heve taken the preliminary course, made a hive and expect my first nuke next month. Three weeks ago I was in my doctors with my six month old daughter getting her imunisations. While waiting in the corridor my GP walked past and i stopped her and asked if i could get a precription for an epipen, she ask why and i told her about the beekeeping. She then told me that they only prescribe them to people with alergy's. My reply to that was " I dont know if i have an alergy but i dont fancy lying suffocating waiting for an ambulance if i find out i do have an alergy" She then thought i had a good point and gave me the prescription straight away and i now have it in my fridge waiting. So I would advised you all to do the same and maybe we could avoid Finding ourselves in a very nasty situation.

 

[jezd]

suprised you dare step out of the front door.

 

[steve1958]

I know what would happen if I had one.
To begin with I would carry it with me all the time,
but within a month or so it would end up being left at home!

and
if I did get stung I would be laying in the recovery position
pen in hand waiting to stab myself at the first sign of a reaction.

Think maybe I will continue to enjoy the fast danger packed thrill of the sting!

 

[garethbryson]

My reasoning

This is my reasoning to my thread


http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1933


http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4534.

 

[victor meldrew]

The fridge is unnecessary, as long as it's kept out of direct light and below 25c.
I carry one in a side pocket of my beekeeping tool bag .

Steve1958, Think Smoker, think epipen !!, as good a memory prompt as any

John Wilkinson

 

[Rosti]

The forum has seen several posts in the last year where established beeks, with routine sting exposure, have experienced higher than expected or extreme venom reaction. None of them saw it coming!

I agree with gareth in terms of precaution, I agree with John in terms of practicality. One problem, my doctor declined to prescribe on a precautionary level. I will try again.

Like most I get alot of intetest from friends / family, especially with the current heightened media awareness of honey bees and requests to go and see for themselves (I have a spare suit). Carrying a pen is not just for self protection but could also be for others in our 'charge'

Both scenarios mean that surely the pens only place is in the tool kit not the fridge (fridge for storage between times perhaps?)

...... and about others using the pen ....... Would that individual have to 'self administer' to avoid a stupid liability for the beek of giving someone unprescribed drugs (a la USA claims culture) if it went wrong?

 

[Roy S]

Having been through what I went through this weekend my first reaction is to agree with you. But after a little thought on the matter, if you are that worried about possible reactions, then maybe its worth getting allergy tested BEFORE you get stung and find out the hard way?

I now believe I have found the answer to my hypersensitivity, but I am getting checked out first to make sure, but to me after enduring the effects of adrenalin for 2 hours I dont think an epipen should be looked on as a matter of course, the effects of administering it could be more damaging than the bee sting. Also when would you use it? maybe you are just going through a normal reaction, and panic use the epipen and have a massive coronary due to the elevated blood pressure that adrenaline produces?

With most established beekeepers they know pretty much how they react normally and would be in a good position to know when things are not right.
But new beekeepers who havent built up an immunity could be reaching for the epipen a lot sooner than they should.

If we use the mentality of getting an epipen "just in case"....Omlet will soon be issuing them with their beekeeping kits

IF IN DOUBT GET TESTED!!!!

Lets not make the craft any more dangerous than it needs to be

take care everyone

Roy

 

[victor meldrew]

The forum has seen several posts in the last year where established beeks, with routine sting exposure, have experienced higher than expected or extreme venom reaction. None of them saw it coming!

I agree with gareth in terms of precaution, I agree with John in terms of practicality. One problem, my doctor declined to prescribe on a precautionary level. I will try again.

Like most I get alot of intetest from friends / family, especially with the current heightened media awareness of honey bees and requests to go and see for themselves (I have a spare suit). Carrying a pen is not just for self protection but could also be for others in our 'charge'

Both scenarios mean that surely the pens only place is in the tool kit not the fridge (fridge for storage between times perhaps?)

...... and about others using the pen ....... Would that individual have to 'self administer' to avoid a stupid liability for the beek of giving someone unprescribed drugs (a la USA claims culture) if it went wrong?

The epipen web site has good advice on use on third parties!
Roughly ,it indicates that in a life and death situation ,use the pen including on heart heart patients where adrenalin isn't advised .
The emphasis is "A LIFE OR DEATH " situation!!.

John Wilkinson

 

[Rosti]

Roy, I fully agree with your comments and you are best placed of anyone on current experience to know! Glad you are on the mend.

I asked about this and my Doctor said that since I have been stung regularly without violent reaction that this is as good an indicator as any and so no point testing me further! The point I pick up from yours and several other posts is that people with a normally low reaction change sensitivity or as in you case get such an extreme exposure that it triggers a massively elevated reaction. I think this was the point that my Doc was trying to make to me.

If my Docs view i correct then your comments still holds true for people who dont know what their reaction is like though.

It has reminded me not to get cavalier or macho about reduced protection when working with the girls though - always suit up!

 

[Roy S]

The epipen web site has good advice on use on third parties!
Roughly ,it indicates that in a life and death situation ,use the pen including on heart heart patients where adrenalin isn't advised .
The emphasis is "A LIFE OR DEATH " situation!!.

John Wilkinson

Exactly John.....LIFE OR DEATH!!!, but how many new beekeepers could overreact? Thats what worries me about this scenario. I have to admit I am more worried about the possibility of having to use the epipen than getting stung!

Roy

 

[victor meldrew]

The site has a video clip depicting the symptoms of anaphylaxis, these are obvious although to take your point even professionals can mistake a panic attack for anaphylaxis . breathing difficulties fainting etc.
I would still use my own judgement and act if I thought someone was dying before my eyes and medical help was remote !!.

John Wilkinson

 

[tonybloke]

The site has a video clip depicting the symptoms of anaphylaxis, these are obvious although to take your point even professionals can mistake a panic attack for anaphylaxis . breathing difficulties fainting etc.
I would still use my own judgement and act if I thought someone was dying before my eyes and medical help was remote !!.

John Wilkinson

After reading various posts on here (and elsewhere) I now carry an epipen, in my tool box. I often have friends who want to 'have a look' whilst I'm Inspecting my hives. Although I do have spare kit for them to wear, it's better to be prepared for any emergencies? (former Boy Scout)

My father kept bees in the 70's for several years, until he got a severe allergic reaction (well done to Ely RAF hospital for saving his life) so better safe than sorry, eh?

Glad to hear you are OK, Roy, btw.

 

[shonabee]

One of the first aid courses run by St Andrews Ambulance folk is the correct use of an epipen - apparantley it is very easy BUT you do need to be sure that it's the right thing to be doing at all - as in, how to recognise anaphylactic shock in others as opposed to someone who's been stung, feels light headed, hot day and faints /has panic attack / whatever.

I would use one if I genuinely thought it was life-and-death. Otherwise I wouldn't be happy using it on someone else.

 

[drex]

Quite agree with all the above. Being a medic, I think it is a good idea, if any doubt about sucseptibility to allergy to have an epipen available if you are into bees, especially if your hives are in the wilds.
As demonstarted in another thread, past experience of stings without problem is no guarantee that you will not become seriously allergic.

Trouble is an epipen does have a limited lifespan. Should be kept back until you are sure there is no alternative, as then it is life saving. Little harm should come if administered inappropriately - beware if you have angina.

With ref the first post. Read the instructions ( everyone). Do not keep in a fridge, it will cause the solution to precipitate out

 

[shonabee]

..... Little harm should come if administered inappropriately - beware if you have angina.

Drex, I never realised that - I always just assumed that if you didn't need it /had heart bother then it could do more harm than good (I have no medical background!)

 

[Blodwen Price]

what Drex actually said was "little harm should come if administered inappropriately- beware if you have angina" (my bold)

The same can be said of bee stings - little harm should come of them! And I would imagine the chances of a beesting escalating into full on anaphylaxis are far far lower than the chances of a wrongly administered Epipen causing further problems. Of course the counter-argument is that the anyphylactic reaction to a beesting only has to happen once!

It's a matter of deciding for yourself the level of risk. In a BKA apiary or teaching situation, I would suggest that the sensible approach would err towards having the treatment available.

If you're thinking of carrying one for yourself you need to really think about when you might use it - do you know what the onset of anaphylaxis feels like? how far do you let it develop before using the epipen? If you worry that much about it - is beekeeping the right activity for you?

 

[garethbryson]

I shall go home and take my epipen out of the fridge, Thanks for that. I still stand by my decision to get the epipen though. "Its better to be looking at it Than looking for it"

 

[Rosti]

If you worry that much about it - is beekeeping the right activity for you?

I know the point you are making BP but there are several posts now of people who believed through past experience of sting reaction that they were not at risk

I know that have more chance of being run over when out shopping, unfortunately my wife has decided that despite this risk shopping is still the right activity for me!

 

[drex]

I agree with Blodwen, it is a judgement call. I think anyone would know when they are having a signidficant anaphylactic reaction. Read the description in the first sticky " a very sobering experience". That certainly tells you how dire the sitaution is, but there are also other symptoms, breathlessness or sever wheezing being the main. I am surprised the anbulance crew did not administer adrenaline, earlier and waited for his BP to drop. But then, I was not there so do not really know. In my medical practice I would be happier to give it when not needed, than not give it when it is. But that is just me.

 

[Roy S]

I agree with Blodwen, it is a judgement call. I think anyone would know when they are having a signidficant anaphylactic reaction. Read the description in the first sticky " a very sobering experience". That certainly tells you how dire the sitaution is, but there are also other symptoms, breathlessness or sever wheezing being the main. I am surprised the anbulance crew did not administer adrenaline, earlier and waited for his BP to drop. But then, I was not there so do not really know. In my medical practice I would be happier to give it when not needed, than not give it when it is. But that is just me.

The ambulance crew did administer adrenaline once I was in the back of the ambulance, and they had assessed my condition. I cannot fault them, and I am truly gratefull to them. I was indeed breathless, but it manifested itself as more a "tiredness" than a difficulty breathing. Almost like my body was too tired and couldnt be bothered to breathe if that doesnt sound daft?. I wasnt struggling for breath like I would have expected reading the symptoms now.

In fact I think that was the most dangerous thing about the situation, it just felt like I needed a good sleep. Though I have no doubt it wouldnt have been a sleep I'd have got.