Foundation Free Frames

[rolande]

Why don't you put a foundation box under the brood box in spring. Cluster expands down and draw the new combs. So they do in nature.

We put plenty of new boxes on in spring, but, getting comb drawn in spring and summer is no excuse for taking a holiday in September.

 

[rolande]

Possibly from here.......

Yes, and similar posts that he's made elsewhere.

 

[Finman]

We put plenty of new boxes on in spring, but, getting comb drawn in spring and summer is no excuse for taking a holiday in September.

Makes no sense

 

[Finman]

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I use to have foundations in wintering hives from September to start of June. Bees do not draw them during that time, even if I feed them.

I use to put foundations or thin white combs in box sides. They do not take mold during wintering.

 

[rolande]

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I use to have foundations in wintering hives from September to start of June. Bees do not draw them during that time, even if I feed them.

I can't talk for other people's abilities.

Best thing is for anyone who thinks that there may be something in all of this to do what I did when I read about it. Have a go with a few colonies next September. See what happens. It's usually better to 'have a go' than to take advice from someone who's tried and failed.

 

[Finman]

I can't talk for other people's abilities.

advice from someone who's tried and failed.

Failed... Where... I have never tried to draw combs with winter cluster, because bees have nothing to do on winter.

Prople's abilities?

I have had bees 54 years, and I know exactly how they draw combs. Nothing new can be found in such simple thing.
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If bees do not draw combs they do not draw combs. Why they should do it all the time?
Bees save their energy and that is why they do not do vain jobs.

Bees know what they do, but do you?

 

[rolande]

Failed... Where... I have never tried to draw combs with winter cluster, because bees have nothing to do on winter.

Thankfully, no one is suggesting that the winter cluster should draw combs. It's only you that thinks September in Britain is winter but you must surely forgive me if I misunderstood the following:

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I use to have foundations in wintering hives from September to start of June. Bees do not draw them during that time, even if I feed them.

Of course, you do go on to clarify by saying:

I use to put foundations or thin white combs in box sides. They do not take mold during wintering.

But I took that to be two totally unrelated paragraphs as again, no one is suggesting that sheets of foundation should be put on the outside of the wintering cluster. This is the thing isn't it, in your haste to impose your seasons on different locations you simply can't see that we really are talking about very different things.

I have had bees 54 years, and I know exactly how they draw combs. Nothing new can be found in such simple thing.

54 years should be a huge amount of experience but it's a shame if all you've got from it is a closed mind and a contempt for the rest of us.

If bees do not draw combs they do not draw combs.

But they do build comb and they fill it with little baby bees ready for when they finally settle into a winter cluster -which won't be in September, take my word for it.

Bees know what they do, but do you?

I'm always happy to learn how to do things better, but in a decade or so of reading your posts you've never shown me such a way, thankfully, many others have. Funny thing is, the ones who present the good ideas which I've learnt from have always been the open minded ones themselves.

 

[Finman]

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Those winter cluster foundations are meant to add ventilation on the sides of a box. I got that advice 52 years ago.


If a person has no goal, what he is going to achieve, he does not need to learn anything. He manage well on his old level.

Happy to learn every day something new. I have heard that from every ganster, but when years go, same guys repeat the same sentence "happy to learn new".

As you said, that you "do not have time to move hives" but you have time to learn every day. It is impossible to learn in practical beekeeping that much in a decade.

To move hives is Basic stuff in succesfull beekeeping.
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[For want of a better word]

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This is a forum for 2 hive owners, but why they should know every the most odd way to get new combs... Bailey exchange, shook swarms, foundations in winter cluster.

Why don't you put a foundation box under the brood box in spring. Cluster expands down and draw the new combs. So they do in nature.


Bees love spaces in spring, where they can draw drone combs.
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That is what we do with the OSB system.... just 2 hives or 160 makes little difference!
Just use a starter strip... and of course a good stock of Native black bees!!!

Nadelik lowen!

 

[Finman]

That is what we do with the OSB system.... just 2 hives or 160 makes little difference!
!

What is that "little difference" in 160 hives?

200 times more losses than with 2 hives?

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[For want of a better word]

What is that "little difference" in 160 hives?

200 times more losses than with 2 hives?

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Just keep that mash refluxing at 78.24+/- 0.9 degrees C and you will be fine!

Nadelik lowen
God Jul!

 

[Finman]

Nadelik lowen
God Jul!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eVauFwBS4g

 

[Eyeman]

I have had bees 54 years, and I know exactly how they draw combs. Nothing new can be found in such simple thing.

You forget to mention the 6 university degrees and a honey yield at least 130kg per hive!

 

[Finman]

You forget to mention the 6 university degrees and a honey yield at least 130kg per hive!

Actually they are 8-9 when I counted.

 

[For want of a better word]

Actually they are 8-9 when I counted.

Having a Masters and at least one "o" level in Maths... that'll be MINUS ONE !

Just loved the polka!

Nadelik lowen

 

[Finman]

Also - converting sugar syrup into wax later in the year would be a very economical method of producing wax.
LJ

It is simple idea, that feed sugar to bees, and put them do new combs. What what I did 1966 when I founded 18 hives. I bought swarms as much as I found. I put 4 kg bees into each hive.

Nothing new in it.

But difficulty to make draw combs with sugar is tht bees draw cells only if cells become filled with honey or sugar.

If you are going to make a langstrot box of new combs with sugar, you will have 25 kg sugar syrup in those combs.

 

[bjosephd]

Thought I might have a go at doing my foundationless frames like this this year.

Ideally I want to find a finer dowel (the thinnest I could find in B&Q was 6mm)... maybe 3mm? As I don't want the dowel to be too much of an obstacle. Maybe it'll be a nice place for them to clearly and in view hang queen cells from! Or do you think a 3mm dowel will be too flimsy? Depends what wood I suppose!?

But I think two thirds down is fine. Drawn comb should normally holds itself ok while it's above the dowel anyway.

But it's nice and easy, drill out the 3rd hole down. Hammer dowel through, saw off remainder.

The top leading edge 'starter strip' by the way is a strip of timber glued in, cut from long strips I get from B&Q.

My plan is nice easy beekeeping. No fiddling with wires and pliers and sodding foundation.

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[Finman]

My plan is nice easy beekeeping. No fiddling with wires and pliers and sodding foundation.

You will regret it

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[bjosephd]

You will regret it



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Why so?




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[Finman]

Why so?




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It has been discussed many times here.
Very expencive and amount of drone cells will be big.

When you do not have foundations, 1 kg/box, bees need 7 kg honey to make 1 kg wax.

So value of that wax is about £ 50. Five boxes per hive, and you loose £ 250 honey money.

Then bees do drone cells instead of worker/forager cells. Yield will be severely smaller.

Drone brood produces much more mites than worker brood.



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