Foundation Free Frames

[Finman]

Well, Finman it works for me.
I usually put one, maybe two...but not at the same time. It gets drawn super fast and the queen lays it up end to end. The bees are still strong enough, there is nectar and pollen still coming in, the varroa load is small as they have been treated and I get a whole frame of winter bees on new comb.
Anybody else do this?

I make the bees draw 2-3 boxes foundations during the main flow.

To put bees draw foundations with winter cluster..... Works for you, but why in heck...
.
But even in summer it is stupid to SPLIT a brood area with foundation.

 

[rolande]

This business of getting comb drawn through September and into October is a very powerful tool which actually seems to invigorate a colony and really gets it 'going' at a time of year when it's likely to be treading water in a sort of no man's land between the main flows and wintering mode. In Britain this can be a period of three or four months. Months wasted. New comb, young bees, a focussed purpose for the colony... plenty to like about the method.

 

[rolande]

The reason I posted about using vertical bamboo skewers is that 'teapot' was unhappy about the prospect of fishing line melting/drooping if placed into a wax melter. No such problem when using bamboo skewers.

I use again the wires when I melt old combs off.

Exactly, find a permanent method such as LJ's skewers or (the one I'd choose everytime) stainless wire. There's no good reason to wire a frame with something which isn't up to several melt-outs.

 

[Finman]

Your inexperience says it all.

Such is life

But I do not have any problems to renew my combs. Each hive draws 2-3 boxes foundation during June-July, every year.

Bee colonies have some optimal times when they are eager to draw combs. They do not need any "encouragements".
.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I make the bees draw 2-3 boxes foundations during the main flow.

To put bees draw foundations with winter cluster..... Works for you, but why in heck...
.
But even in summer it is stupid to SPLIT a brood area with foundation.

It's not about getting new comb. As you say you can do that more effectively in the spring and summer. It's about getting healthy winter bees. Bees like new comb and at that time of year it gets the queen laying those much needed bees

 

[rolande]

Bee colonies have some optimal times when they are eager to draw combs. They do not need any "encouragements".

Bees love to draw comb, here, in September. No encouragement needed -other than having the space and means to do so.

Be sure that although this late comb drawing might not suit you in your location it works very well here. I do take the welfare of my stock seriously and certainly wouldn't bother with this extra work if there was any sign at all that it was other than beneficial to the colonies.

 

[Eyeman]

Be sure that although this late comb drawing might not suit you in your location it works very well here. I do take the welfare of my stock seriously and certainly wouldn't bother with this extra work if there was any sign at all that it was other than beneficial to the colonies.

With Hive Type: "Other" and no displayed location how can we make sense of your post "works very well here"!!!!!!'

 

[Finman]

This business of getting comb drawn through September and into October is a very powerful tool which actually seems to invigorate a colony and really gets it 'going' at a time of year when it's likely to be treading water in a sort of no man's land between the main flows and wintering mode. In Britain this can be a period of three or four months. Months wasted. New comb, young bees, a focussed purpose for the colony... plenty to like about the method.

That is a biggest mistake what I have read about comb building. It is so simple.
University advices says: give foundations during best flow..


Months wasted.... It is called wintering time. Bees must be in winter rest. Do not even disturbe them.

My bees are in winter rest 9 months. It is better that they have nothiong to do. That is the way when tired wintered bees start their new spring in May.

Every extra work shortens bees' life span.

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Do you know, when it is swarming time, you do an artificial swarm, you get 1-2 boxes new foundations combs in one week and it stops swarming.

And you may feed the hive with sugar water that they get their combs ready in a week.

 

[Finman]

Bees love to draw comb, here, in September. No encouragement needed -other than having the space and means to do so.

Be sure that although this late comb drawing might not suit you in your location it works very well here. I do take the welfare of my stock seriously and certainly wouldn't bother with this extra work if there was any sign at all that it was other than beneficial to the colonies.

My average yiedls are 60-80 kg/hive, and best make 150 kg/hive. Draw from that. Often average yield is 100 kg.

To me it is enough in September that bees cap the winter food. In August we do not have any flowers and bees' task is to feed wintering brood. All extra work are forbidden.



You must have special flow in September if bees "love" to draw new combs. Bees do not draw combs without flow. Balsam, I bet.
.

 

[Tom Bick]

You want to see what they can do with the ivy.

Did you not follow some of the threads about the heather this year.

Not everyone, and can be weather dependant but there is often plenty of nectar available in September for the bees to collect and build up winter stores.

I think this thread started about foundation less frames but I suspect it's moved towards drawing foundation. The two are different, similar but different.

For me I find expanding nucs with young queens are still keen to build comb in September but unless a large colony is working something well and the weather is in favour you are better to leave them on the combs they have as they just wont waste their time.

 

[Little John]

University advices says: give foundations during best flow.

You must have special flow in September if bees "love" to draw new combs. Bees do not draw combs without flow.

If bees draw comb during a flow, then they'll be using honey or the nectar they're bringing-in to make wax ... what a waste. But you cannot give them sugar syrup as a substitute at that time for fear of contaminating the honey crop. No wonder you're not rich yet.

This is a thread about the drawing of foundationless comb - where the drawing of comb without drone cells poses a challenge. Assuming that we're talking full-sized colonies - the drawing of comb during a flow will invariably result in comb with drone cells included.

If, on the other hand, colonies are used which have no interest in raising drones, then drone-cell-free comb will result. Also - converting sugar syrup into wax later in the year would be a very economical method of producing wax.
LJ

 

[Finman]

.
In Norway their main yield is heather. They brake the combs to harvest yield. Then bees must draw new combs to store winter food winter.

But these are special cases.

You may have ready combs to give to the hives. No problem.

++++++++++

I have just now 8 boxes of ready combs per hive for next year. Nothing panic.

.

 

[Finman]

If

This is a thread about the drawing of foundationless comb - where the drawing of comb without drone cells poses a challenge. LJ

I read very well English. You can use drone combs in supers. And gather worker combs into the brood box.

 

[rolande]

With Hive Type: "Other" and no displayed location how can we make sense of your post "works very well here"!!!!!!'

160
Predominantly 13 frame BS but modified dadants too.
Dorset.

Other people (where I personally got the idea from), with far more colonies do the same in Scotland.

Make what you will of it.

 

[rolande]

That is a biggest mistake what I have read about comb building. It is so simple.
University advices says: give foundations during best flow..

Practical advice is to use those late months to advantage.

Months wasted.... It is called wintering time. Bees must be in winter rest. Do not even disturbe them.

No, September is not winter. I can't comment on Finland.

Every extra work shortens bees' life span

It's good that they use that shortened life to raise so many more new bees.

 

[rolande]

My average yiedls are 60-80 kg/hive, and best make 150 kg/hive. Draw from that. Often average yield is 100 kg.

I can't really draw anything from that, you keep four colonies to an apiary in very different pastures. I don't have time to be going around four colony apiaries. Then there's the added transport costs and of course, at this time of year, when I'm dropping the main apiary rent off I'd be ruined -or have to give less than I like to....

 

[rolande]

I think this thread started about foundation less frames but I suspect it's moved towards drawing foundation. The two are different, similar but different

I use both and see good results.

 

[Finman]

I can't really draw anything from that, you keep four colonies to an apiary in very different pastures. I don't have time to be going around four colony apiaries. Then there's the added transport costs and of course, at this time of year, when I'm dropping the main apiary rent off I'd be ruined -or have to give less than I like to....

Why to put four colonies in a apiary if 2 hives are able clean the flowers.

4 hives in one site is a rare maximum.

Do you think that I would have more time, if I have 20 hives in one point and each give me 15 kg honey ?

You have time to keep bees, but not time to move them to good pastures.

Some does not have time extract honey. So busy.

It is like a fischerman. He has a boat but not time to go to sea and seach a fishing site.

Added cost:

Everyhthing in beekeeping is cost untill when you give the hone away, it is income.

 

[Hivemaker.]

160
Other people (where I personally got the idea from), with far more colonies do the same in Scotland.

Possibly from here.......http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=35143&page=2

Hate to disagree with you but sadly in this case I do, and probably mostly due to climate differences. Your advice closely mirrors what they would tell you in Canada, as does your climate.

As for adding foundation. September in particular is a truly great month here for getting new combs drawn in the nest whilst doing the winter feeding. Not a drone cell on them. We get three to five new combs drawn in almost all our early home hives (up to 1st week Oct in wood, third week in poly) It will all be down to the maritime climate. Yet they do even more radical things in Denmark and Norway, where they can put them into winter on all new wax and feed to get it drawn.

 

[Finman]

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This is a forum for 2 hive owners, but why they should know every the most odd way to get new combs... Bailey exchange, shook swarms, foundations in winter cluster.

Why don't you put a foundation box under the brood box in spring. Cluster expands down and draw the new combs. So they do in nature.


Bees love spaces in spring, where they can draw drone combs.
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