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kazmcc 

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Do I understand this properly. The queen we have now, will be the mother to the next queen we will have when it comes to requeening ( unless we need to buy in ). Will her daughter show the same calm, chilled out qualities in her colony? Will she keep an equally well behaved house? Or do you get the odd rogue? Beginners question I know, but we all have to start somewhere :)
 

Hivemaker. 

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Depends on the drones she mates with.....next one could be evil,and during the transition period they could be not so nice.
 
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Mike a 

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I know very little about genetics, I'll leave that to the experts.

All I know is it took Brother Adam almost a life time to learn the craft and breed the Buckfast Queen and even then he still continued to try and improve it until he passed away.

Is the Buckfast perfect - No, but it has many more good traits than bad according to those who have tried them.

See this pdf for more info about some of the breeds
 
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oliver90owner 

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Following generations will be different. Each queen has genes from her mother and one of several drones. Bio-diversity and all that.

The 'odd rogue' is a bit of an under-exaggeration.

Every trait may be affected, not just docility. That might include lay-rate, laying pattern, hygienic behaviour, swarminess, brooding into winter, early and late flying, amounts of honey collected or used up, and others.

Some very docile imports, or particular strains, may show a sudden change in docility when the second generation arrives.

Regards, RAB
 

kazmcc 

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Ok, thanks Mike for the link, and thanks Rab for the explaination. Our queen is an import, and is very docile. So how do you make sure the bee will remain well behaved?
 

oliver90owner 

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She, and her workers are likely to remain well behaved while she is there. No guarantee, given or implied, of future generations. As I said the next is likely to be OK, but thereafter they could be or might not be, and in some instances (reported, as I have no direct experience of bought-in queens) there seems to be a very large change in temperament for the worse.

I find that with average 'local mongrels' the docility is not on a par with some of these imported, or specially bred queens, but is more likely to remain in that general range - than progeny of some bought-in queens. BUT, I still (given the opportunity) raise more queens/colonies than I over-winter for the very reason that I am able to select for the traits I feel advantageous to me.

Regards, RAB
 

Heather 

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Hi Kaz,
I have a great hive that has shown no sign of swarming this year- that is the colony I want to breed from- trying to develop queens from grafted larvae next Spring. I can then only hope for good matings.

I wouldnt choose brood from a swarmy colony.. as that tends to follow a trend. But who can tell- My new queens may buck previous trend and have a swarmy colony, but if I start with those good genes it may up the stakes for a good hive.
Unless there is a genetically aggressive queen breeding evil bees ( and I personally feel these are rare) then there is usually a good reason why bees are nasty.
They are queenless and panicking. You are nicking their honey and they realise it. They feel threatened- maybe rough handling, overlong inspection.
If you cover the colony with a towel during inspection and expose a frame at a time - it greatly reduces their fear so easier to handle.
I only requeen if I have a colony that 'follows' me aggressively well away from the hive- unacceptably rude of them!! :toetap05:If they headbutt me when I am in their area then I feel that is their prerogative as I am in their space.
If they attack with no reason if I am near the hive - I would requeen but it hasn't happened yet
 

gregnut 

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Ok, thanks Mike for the link, and thanks Rab for the explaination. Our queen is an import, and is very docile. So how do you make sure the bee will remain well behaved?
If your queen was imported already mated, then presumably she was mated with drones of the same type. So the first generation (her workers and any queens produced from her eggs) should have the same traits. The next generation, when her offspring queen will mate with local drones, will begin to show variations.
Am I right? I am in the same position, having bought several queens from Hawaii.
 

drstitson 

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oliver90owner

Bio-diversity is not the same as genetic variation within a species. It is the variation of life forms within a given ecosystem, such as the many millions of distinct biological species present on earth.

In order to ensure that a particular trait is maintained within your stock you need to produce queens from your good natured colony, let them mate and then see what the next generation is like (remembering that the placid workers you have are only 50% directly related to your original queen). You can happily keep any undesirable offspring colonies solely as a source of drones to flood your apiary (these will be 100% related to their mother) then re-queen at later date from proven placid descendants.
 

oliver90owner 

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Life, in the ~3500 million years that the scientists think it has existed on this planet, would have started with one or more life forms, but not so many. Over the ensuing passage of time, with extinctions and increasing bio-diversity the number of organisms has changed. Some have changed into entirely differently-appearing life forms. Variation, adaptation, mutation, whatever; they all lead one of two ways - bio-diversity or extinction. Lots of shades in between. That is my take. You can have your own.

I am well aware of the requirements for selection of suitable (IMO) queens for my later generations. Perhaps you would be better using your posts to preach to those on the forum who have not studied mitosis, meiosis and a host of other life processes.
 
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Females in many species of wildlife sneak off to mate with a male from a different colony on the basis of introducing a new strain into their colony.
In my experience of breeding dogs for a few years, the offspring tented to resemble (mostly) the father rather than the mother.
 

aseeryl 

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Females of H. sapiens show similar traits. You can't buck evolution and natural selection forever.
 
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Females of H. sapiens show similar traits. You can't buck evolution and natural selection forever.
An established fact for the same reasons ( and others) but I was not brave enough to say so...
 

tonybloke 

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Females of H. sapiens show similar traits. You can't buck evolution and natural selection forever.

so why do the 'family history' folk always follow / trace the male lineage? surely it would be better to follow the female lineage? ;)
 
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I suppose because women were classed as being brought in as suitable breeding stock.......to keep the family line going...
 

drstitson 

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Not preaching

the first part of my post was aimed at you (and others) as a clarification NOT a put down. the second a point to the OP and viewers in general.

i repeat. Biodiversity has a specific definition. Check out the UN International Year of Biodiversity (this year, 2010) in google if you wish.

Biodiversity is of course in part the result of the processes of evolution, mutation and natural selection but is NOT equivalent. That was the point i was making.

But - i hope that BF isn't going to turn out like the Daily Mail website with a few individuals with a little education thinking that they know best.
 

Chris B 

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I recently read that virgin queens tend to travel a lot further than drones for mating, thus minimising inbreeding - I was always under the impression it was the other way round. Either way it's unlikely a virgin will mate with drones from the same apiary so in the absence of isolated mating sites you have to take a wider view to flood the area with desirable drones.

(Ref: Bee Sex Essentials by Connor)
 

kazmcc 

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So how do you ensure your colony stays well behaved? I have read, and heard it said that such and such a body only keeps calm bees. How is this maintained. My only worry is that these bees are for a school, and although not sited on the grounds, the grounds are nearby. They are perfect at the moment, you can lean on the enclosure fence and watch them ( see my pics ) and they don't even act like you are there. We need to maintain this gentleness.

PS I don't lean on the fence, I watch from a distance if not suited, but others certainly do.
 

Heather 

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Treat them gently- little or no smoke, work slowly and use a cloth on bees yet to be inspected - works for me... don't mean to sound smug:eek: just the way it is.
Only once had a bad experience and they were queenless.
 

drstitson 

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genealogy

Family History people concentrate on male line because, in UK at least, that is easiest because a) you get your surname from your father, b) heads of households have always had more importance socially and c) most societies have previously regarded inheritance to pass from male to male wrt possesions title etc. after death.

although women in UK usually take on a married name this is not the case in europe. In Italy death notices for women will say something along lines of Ferrari Dina, widow of Rossi so that people know when it refers to! likewise italian women own their own property and leave to relatives.

Situation is of course slight different for Jews as maternal line is what is important - you can lie about who the father is but actually giving birth is a giveaway as to who is mum!!!!

If you want to trace things DNA wise then of course you can look at both - Y chromosome for male line and mitochondrial DNA for female.
 

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