Donation reversal

[MartinL]

The point for me is that we love this forum and the way it has developed has been more collaborative and much less authoritarian than other forums. I am grateful that this forum is not powered by adverts and full of pop ups. I am glad that we are a community of beekeepers and we chat about bees and that we don't suffer repeated commercial postings from people wanting to sell stuff, because that is tedious. I am glad that we have rules, that we have agreed and that most people stick to them.

When people break the rules, particualrly if they do so knowingly, that is tiresome, as it means that someone else has to act as enforcer. Running this forum is no-one's paid job. We all benefit from it.

I think that there should be a penalty for breaking the rules knowingly. He already got free publicity. £15 donation is a small price to pay. If there is another transgression I think his posting rights should be suspended for a few weeks. I think it is cheeky asking for a donation back at all, but especially under the circumstances. He should suck up the £15 loss ( if you can call a donation a loss!).

 

[newportbuzz]

so you raise nucs with the sole intention of selling them, that sounds like a pretty commercial decision to me


I'm not saying there's anything wrong with selling nucs, be it by a 'commercial' or 'hobbyist' beekeeper, and I'm in agreement that bees have to cover their own costs. what did people do before nucs had any real value? is not only in the last few years that the price of nucs has gone through the roof?

selling honey and other products of the hive.

no argument here its a very comercialy minded decision.
our hobby is however unequely placed from this point of view. take most other hobbys there is no saleable product to be got from them. trains stamps coins gardening surfing cycling etc etc.
we have to keep this in mind when considering someone comercial or not trying to ofset the costs while comercial is not a buisness plan which will float.

 

[MartinL]

yes, I'm aware of that, and with your 25 hives I expect you'll easily be able to sell 25Lb of honey at £4 a Lb.

£4 a pound!!!!!

Now who's being commercial!

 

[Chris B]

There have been a number of blatantly commercial posts over the years by people who were NOT pushing their main profession but were nevertheless clearly undertaking a commercial venture. 2 cases immediately spring to mind and both were moderated (quite rightly so). (Clue: think braless woman meets irritating novice).
The spirit of the forum was violated, even if the rules weren't - much more distasteful than an established member overstepping the mark. At the end of the day we just need to allow admins a bit of discretion.

 

[taff..]

£4 a pound!!!!!

Now who's being commercial!

I was being conservative with that figure.

I sell mine for £4/ 12oz, premium product init

 

[VEG]

care full taff you may come across as commercial

 

[Black Comb]

Well just to complicate things a bit further, a commercial guy with hundreds of hives sells queens to members (perhaps nucs for all I know) and also equipment that he manufactures. Everyone knows this yet he is still here, but hang on, he's a moderator?

To be fair there have never been any "commercial" posts though.

 

[hallshoney]

a donation is a gift you cant go in to church put money in the collection not like what the vicar says and ask for your donation back having said that the rules on advertising and commercial beekeepers are in my opinion rubbish the big T might as well sponsor the forum with the amount they get a mentioned.

 

[tidymeup]

Times are hard give their money back and make the rules much clearer to read.

 

[jackbee]

At what point does a hobby become commercial - 5 nucs at 150 a pop, 10, 15, 2 hives a week, 5??

Surely anything you sell for more than it cost you makes it commercial (for tax purposes at least!)

maybe allow commercial but limit for sale posts in the forum to a fixed number in a fixed period of time and no generic posts but only for specific items.

 

[jackbee]

the rules on advertising and commercial beekeepers are in my opinion rubbish the big T might as well sponsor the forum with the amount they get a mentioned.

agreed, everyone knows who people are talking about be it T or M or C etc - just makes it difficult to have conversations.

It took 3 attempts by PM (not even open forum) to actually get the name of a website yesterday, pathetic really (and it wasn't even a commercial operation really)

 

[region2]

Times are hard give their money back and make the rules much clearer to read.

Hit the nail on the head - as with the rules on links it's all a bit hit'n'miss.

And a donation is optional - this donation was 'required' to allow the advert - the advert was disallowed so the donation should be returned.

R2

 

[parkranger]

Donation Reversal

Apologies, but I must be missing something. Whether to return the donation or not seems to be a side issue compared to the principle of commercial beekeepers being allowed to advertise. What exactly are we afraid of if they do? The people that will benefit the most from commercial advertising or any other advertising are those members who see something that in their opinion is being offered at a sensible price. If it benefits the members to buy such items then what is wrong with this selling receiving a fair price, given that they are making a donation. If members choose not to buy, then at least they have guide on "market prices". Let them advertise, take their money and stop the paranoia.

 

[BeeJayBee]

... given that they are making a donation.

In other places, if you have to pay something in order to access a service, it's called a fee. You can only advertise things for sale on this site if you "make a donation", it isn't voluntary, it's compulsory.

 

[newportbuzz]

In other places, if you have to pay something in order to access a service, it's called a fee. You can only advertise things for sale on this site if you "make a donation", it isn't voluntary, it's compulsory.

call a sheep a sheep.

 

[onriver]

there is a huge difference between a commercial operation that buys in nucs from eastern Europe @ £50 by the hundreds, brings them in on the back of a transit and then sells them on in the UK for £150, compared to a beekeeper that passes on splits and swarms that he/she worries over, provides back up and won't sell on if they are not confident the buyer can manage. Which is the commercial seller - seems pretty obvious to me!

 

[BKF Admin]

In other places, if you have to pay something in order to access a service, it's called a fee. You can only advertise things for sale on this site if you "make a donation", it isn't voluntary, it's compulsory.

Your right.

I think we need to change the wording from "donation" to "fee" for sellers placing adverts.

 

[BKF Admin]

Apologies, but I must be missing something. Whether to return the donation or not seems to be a side issue compared to the principle of commercial beekeepers being allowed to advertise. What exactly are we afraid of if they do? The people that will benefit the most from commercial advertising or any other advertising are those members who see something that in their opinion is being offered at a sensible price. If it benefits the members to buy such items then what is wrong with this selling receiving a fair price, given that they are making a donation. If members choose not to buy, then at least they have guide on "market prices". Let them advertise, take their money and stop the paranoia.

Trouble is the time it takes up to moderate commercial sellers.
A couple of years back we had one commercial seller with over 500 links on the forum.

It's very cheap to get a few Indian kids to make forum accounts and post good feedback as buyers from a company,they can use a proxy to register accounts from around the world,the only way to stop it is with hours and hours of moderation.

And how do we draw a line ?
Should we take money from one company while not letting others advertise,do we take money from Bayer ect for hive products,there is already a beekeeping website that does that.

No thanks...

 

[Mike a]

If anyone wants to pay me £15+ and send me one of their products to field test I'll happily review it.

Seriously though I don't mind reading how X supplier provided a great service to a member is who isn't in any way related to that supplier but in moderation. Similarly I want to read how bad a supplier treated a member but an advert free forum gets my vote.

Refund and move on

 

[Hivemaker.]

there is a huge difference between a commercial operation that buys in nucs from eastern Europe @ £50 by the hundreds, brings them in on the back of a transit and then sells them on in the UK for £150, compared to a beekeeper that passes on splits and swarms that he/she worries over, provides back up and won't sell on if they are not confident the buyer can manage. Which is the commercial seller - seems pretty obvious to me!

And do you think that all commercial sellers bring in nucs by the hundred from eastern europe,and none produce them in this country?