Does heat from the outside air and and direct radiation from the sun provide a large measure of the heat required to ripen honey

[user 6228]

Yeah, why I should think so??? Stupid questions. The bee does not need a human to control its honey prosessing energy. Controversy in Britain you force the bees move their capped stores to new place. Odd habits and you teach those to new beekeepers

Bees do the job without me. It is controlled by bees. I give only more space when old space is full.

Ripening takes its value what it needs. I cannot help them. But I can make their life difficult.

I know more about these thing more than you. I look, what I can do that bees get big yields.


You are just wondering that bees store nectar into brood combs. So they do every year here in my hives, when it is a good flow.

So the reason is if Finman doesn't know something neither should any one else? I wonder whatever happened to your curiosity?

 

[Excession]

Do you agree or disagree with the statement " heat from the outside air and and direct radiation from the sun provide a large measure of the heat required to ripen honey"

I did just reply to this, but not sure where the post went...

It isn’t solely heat that ripens nectar into honey.
The bees invert sucrose (a disaccharide) into glucose and fructose (monosaccharides) using enzymes and the unwanted water.

C12H22O11 + H2O = 2x C6H12O6

 

[Excession]

Lol, now you have it twice for good measure...

Not sure I understand what the rest of the fuss is about though?

 

[Finman]

.
It is heat, but relative moisture too and difference with out temperature.

Cold air, perhaps 20C has been taken in. Hive has in brood champer 35C. Warm air can carry huge amount of moisture compared to cold air. Ventilation moves moisture out.

Bees are busy when they do nectar work. Work makes heat. But mainly drying up the nectar takes too heat out. If hive is too hot, they must carry home cooling water.

But Finland or British Isles are not so hot that we should worry about these things and count Wats in that process.

 

[Finman]

Lol, now you have it twice for good measure...

Not sure I understand what the rest of the fuss is about though?

But remember relative humidity things too.

 

[Beefriendly]

There should be a third option for those who don't give a toss. Mean air temperature plays a part as does the heat generated by a hive of bees. What is your reasoning for asking this question Derek?
You could simplify and say that solar radiation is 100% responsible for all of it as without any sun = no plants = no bees and the question becomes irrelevant.

 

[Finman]

So the reason is if Finman doesn't know something neither should any one else? I wonder whatever happened to your curiosity?

I am curious about other things. Bees are not only way to waste my only life.

Now I am wondering about long skull people of Peru. They moved 3500 years ago to Peru from Black Sea district. With ship!

 

[Finman]

no bees and the question becomes irrelevant.

As well, nor Derekm, and no one could ask that question.

 

[Beefriendly]

As well, nor Derekm,

We live in hope

 

[roche]

Whilst the wisdom (or otherwise) of crowds is interesting, I think the answer in this case lies in crunching the numbers in physical chemistry.

 

[Finman]

crunching the numbers in physical chemistry.

And what then, when we have got an absolute answer? What we do then?

 

[Finman]

Whilst the wisdom (or otherwise) of crowds is interesting, I think the answer in this case lies in crunching the numbers in physical chemistry.

One beekeeper on Beemaster Forum protected his hive only on north side, because cold comes from north. That I would call physical geography.

 

[Beefriendly]

And what then, when we have got an absolute answer? What we do then?

Call an end to this ridiculous question and thread?

 

[Beecat]

"Direct radiation from the sun" suggests honey ripens in the open, I can't imagine any solar radiation penetrating through to the honey comb where the ripening takes place playing a large part.

And it doesn't. However, I'm sure you can imagine the sun warming the walls of the hive. What's happening is that infrared radiation is being absorbed by the hive walls, and degraded to heat in the wall, which will flow into the hive if and only if the interior of the hive is cooler than the wall.

All Bluebee's numbers do is establish plausibility. He establishes that there is a large heat supply available to the hive that can be much larger than anything the bees can generate. But that is far from the end of the story.

The ripening of honey involves the evaporation of quite a bit of water and because the latent heat of water is so large it raises the question of whether or not the 20-40 watts the bees can generate is enough to do the job. Or are they getting help from solar heating? The answer to this question should have implications for good hive design, and overall honey production.

 

[Beecat]

Call an end to this ridiculous question and thread?

I hardly think so. An investigation of the energy budget of a hive is fundamental. If we don't understand it, the bees are at risk, and indeed in places like Alberta most hives freeze to death in the winter and are repopulated by packages in the spring at great expense. All because people don't understand the energy flow in the hive.

 

[Beefriendly]

If we don't understand it, the bees are at risk, and indeed in places like Alberta most hives freeze to death in the winter .

We understand lots and bees overwinter in Alberta.

 

[Finman]

I hardly think so. An investigation of the energy budget of a hive is fundamental. If we don't understand it, the bees are at risk, and indeed in places like Alberta most hives freeze to death in the winter and are repopulated by packages in the spring at great expense. All because people don't understand the energy flow in the hive.

How that risk appeared just now?

We do not understand?

Biggest winter losses come from varroa. And much losses happen allready in autumn.

In Finland all hives are insulated and they do not freeze to death. Even those beekeepers, which has not heard about energy flow, have hives alive in spring.

Energy budget investigation????

... Yeah. My budget is on average 20 kg sugar per hive in polyhive, and I have difficulties to get ridd of winter sugar before next summer yield. It does not need more calculations. In money it is about 12 euros.

 

[Beecat]

We understand lots and bees overwinter in Alberta.

Yes it can be done, and I have to wonder if over the last decade or two the Alberta beekeepers have adopted practices like Finman's. Recent legal changes in Canada have made package bees from the southern States a thing of the past, but we are still importing large numbers of packages from New Zealand and one other country... Australia was it?

 

[Beefriendly]

Not sure...but reading ABJ poly hives do not seem popular other side of pond.
Not saying it is answer.

 

[Beecat]

And what then, when we have got an absolute answer? What we do then?

Once you have accurate numbers you can look at hive design. It may very well be possible to use some solar heat so the bees won't have to burn honey or syrup to get their work done. It's entirely possible that food consumption could be further reduced.

So if someone was running, oh say 700 hives and they cut syrup consumption in half and they were spending oh, say 12 euros a year per hive on syrup, no to mention the labor in making it and delivering it, that would amount to 4200 euros per year in the beekeeper's pocket.