Does heat from the outside air and and direct radiation from the sun provide a large measure of the heat required to ripen honey

[user 6228]

Do you agree or disagree with the statement " heat from the outside air and and direct radiation from the sun provide a large measure of the heat required to ripen honey"

 

[Beecat]

I found a guy who has cranked the equations and his conclusions were the the bees in an average size hive generate up to 40 watts of heat, and the solar energy falling on the outside amounts to around 200 watts.

Solar heating is significant, for wooden hives. Not so much for poly hives, the heat doesn't penetrate well at all. Of course at night the poly hives win easily, sometimes running 60 Fahrenheit degrees warmer.

If you want to read about it, go to https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=32136.0

 

[oliver90owner]

What has the insolation got to do with latent heat of evaporation of water fron nectar? Air flow, surface area and relative humidity are better drivers for evaporation inside a hive. The internal temperature of the hive is never going to vary as much as the external surface temperatures, particularly in the brooding season.

Of course the energy for evaporation needs to come from somewhere. Puddles on the road can dry up due to wind as well as sunshine.

The poll question makes no sense at all in isolation. Not even a complete sentence!
How can anyone respond to this? Does heat from the outside air and direct radiation from the sun provide a large measure of the. Just does not make sensible reading!

I might answer: Of course it does! Where else does all our energy come from (either directly or indirectly)? Yes, there is some from inside the core of the Earth (radioactive decay, etc.) and some from the gravitational forces acting between the moon and our oceans.

Now, how much is direct and how much indirect is not an easy question for the majority of non-academic beekeepers. Therefore I would not expect any results from this poll to be particularly relevant (already demonstrated by the first response). Spit and flap are the main evaporation drivers inside the colony!

RAB

 

[Finman]

Do you agree or disagree with the statement " heat from the outside air and and direct radiation from the sun provide a large measure of the heat required to ripen honey"

IT is well described in scienticfic reports, how all happens. IT is not a vote question.

And if you have some experience about honey produktion, you notice things connected to weathers.

 

[Finman]

I found a guy who has cranked the equations and his conclusions were the the bees in an average size hive generate up to 40 watts of heat, and the solar energy falling on the outside amounts to around 200 watts.

Solar heating is significant, for wooden hives. Not so much for poly hives, the heat doesn't penetrate well at all. Of course at night the poly hives win easily, sometimes running 60 Fahrenheit degrees warmer.

If you want to read about it, go to https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=32136.0

Such rubbish. Beemaster is not a quell of knowledge. It is full of stupid explanations from California to Michigan.

Guys do not know much about polyhives.

The sun heats the environment and the air in front of the entrance, and the influence is same in woiden and polyhives.

Does the hive is in Australia or in Finland, it means. To wonder, is the wooden hive too hot in sun nakes sense, because mist hives are white. Dark hive wall may have surface temperature +60C in sunshine.

American beekeepers do not understand much about insulation.
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[Finman]

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Water content of nectar and moisture of out air are connected to each others.

Nectar is dried up near brood, and brood temperature is constant.

Does sun affects on bees life, it is a good question.

You see, how sun and out temperature affect on winter feeding and capping of the combs.

 

[Finman]

Do you agree or disagree with the statement " heat from the outside air and and direct radiation from the sun provide a large measure of the heat required to ripen honey"

Question is odd, because without sun shining bees do not get nectar from nature. But bees do rippening work evet at night..

What is the idea of this "questionaire".

Yeas, we use to have sun shining every day in summer. Behind clouds or without clouds.

Bees do their job without my agreeing. What beekeeper should know is that do not "encourage" bees in their job by opening holes in uper parts of the hive. It mixes their heat control.
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[Beecat]

How can anyone respond to this? Does heat from the outside air and direct radiation from the sun provide a large measure of the. Just does not make sensible reading!

The full title is visible on the first post, in case you hadn't noticed.

 

[Finman]

The full title is visible on the first post, in case you hadn't noticed.

IT does not make the question any better.
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[Finman]

Now, how much is direct and how much indirect is not an easy question for the majority of non-academic beekeepers.

RAB

Where you need that information? So, academic beekeepers, those idiots!

 

[Finman]

The full title is visible on the first post, in case you hadn't noticed.

When you read bees' heat control system, you know enough about issue.

 

[user 6228]

The poll question makes no sense at all in isolation. Not even a complete sentence!

The poll question software cut the end off. There appears to be a character limit
please read the first post

 

[Beecat]

I think I should point out that insulation works just as well to keep heat out as to keep heat in. That's why a beer cooler works.

So in the sun, an insulated hive will warm slower than a wooden hive which has about a tenth the insulation. On the other hand, the insulation also traps any heat the bees generate inside the hive, and has been doing so all night, so in the morning the insulated hive starts off much warmer.

That much is just a matter of common knowledge. Here's some stuff that isn't.

The total insolation energy (that means from the Sun, Oliver) is around one kilowatt per square meter. The atmosphere blocks around half that so we get about 500 watts per square meter, on a surface that is perpendicular to the sun's rays. Some of the 500 watts is reflected away, and some is lost to convection. The upshot is that BlueBee's numbers are in fact in the ballpark, as we say here.

 

[mbc]

"Direct radiation from the sun" suggests honey ripens in the open, I can't imagine any solar radiation penetrating through to the honey comb where the ripening takes place playing a large part.

 

[user 6228]

IT is well described in scienticfic reports, how all happens. IT is not a vote question.

And if you have some experience about honey produktion, you notice things connected to weathers.

it is surprisingly absent in scientific reports on the question where the majority of the energy comes from. This statement is the one I have tracked down. it was made by O.W. Park and was published in the "Hive and the Honey bee" in 1946 and 1949 by Dadant & sons. O.W. Park is often cited but with out the detail from the source. he offers no experimental or theoretical evidence. Do you think it plausible or not?

 

[Finman]

it is surprisingly absent in scientific reports on the question where the majority of the energy comes from. ?

IT does not matter from where it comes. You cannot help it. Do you think that a scientist gets honor and project fund if he wonders that kind of things.

We have 2.5 - 3.0 months in winter that we do not even see the whole sun thing on sky.

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[Finman]

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Beekeeping litterature is full of rubbish, even if issues should be important.

Bee plants and honey pastures are one of those rubbish areas. Very few researchs have been done that you get andvantage from that knowledge. But you may write what ever you get into mind.

 

[user 6228]

IT does not matter from where it comes. You cannot help it. Do you think that a scientist gets honor and project fund if he wonders that kind of things.

We have 2.5 - 3.0 months in winter that we do not even see the whole sun thing on sky.

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So you think the energy to ripen honey is irrelevant because it is a small value? or because it is uncontrollable?

 

[Finman]

So you think the energy to ripen honey is irrelevant because it is a small value? or because it is uncontrollable?

Yeah, why I should think so??? Stupid questions. The bee does not need a human to control its honey prosessing energy. Controversy in Britain you force the bees move their capped stores to new place. Odd habits and you teach those to new beekeepers

Bees do the job without me. It is controlled by bees. I give only more space when old space is full.

Ripening takes its value what it needs. I cannot help them. But I can make their life difficult.

I know more about these thing more than you. I look, what I can do that bees get big yields.


You are just wondering that bees store nectar into brood combs. So they do every year here in my hives, when it is a good flow.

 

[Excession]

Do you agree or disagree with the statement " heat from the outside air and and direct radiation from the sun provide a large measure of the heat required to ripen honey"

Hopefully somebody has already answered this, that it isn’t mainly heat that evaporates the water from nectar, the bees use the water when they split sucrose (a disaccharide) into glucose and fructose (monosaccharides).

If I remember correctly it is something like C12H22O11 + H2O = 2 x C6H12O6.