Does anyone on here.....

[Hivemaker.]

Utter utter madness


Good grief......do you think that a proffesional queen breeder, and entomologist,running hundred of colonys for a living,is trying to poison his bee's.

I also use eo's in feed,they work very well.

 

[Somerford]

HM - we can agree to disagree....I wouldn't put all that in my feed, even if Prince Charles himself extolled the virtues !

regards

S

 

[Norton]

..I wouldn't put all that in my feed,
And the reason being?

 

[iand]

Try googling Randy Oliver - Scientific beekeeping He will explain about most of those ingredients & the reasoning behind their use in pollen substitutes. He has pulled together sucessful recipes used by various big US bee farmers and come up with a new balanced recipe. It works I have fed a direct copy of that recipe & my own modification [ref Scot BKA]. Once you have an idea what the aim is for any ingredient then if you cannot source it you can work out a good substitute. BUT you must read about it in depth, be a stockman or just follow a simple recipe to gain experience. Learn to walk 1st. The bees will soon tell you (google Alan Dick his bees eat it like mad)

regards

Ian

have fun

 

[Hivemaker.]

google Alan Dick his bees eat it like mad)


An interesting guy to chat with as well,and he also has one of my feed recipes on his website,which he asked for, to put in his diary..

 

[BKF Admin]

some cinnamon
Best regards
Norton.

I am sure I read a while back that Verroa are not to keen on Cinnamon ?
Do you also add a mint extract such as pepermint oil and Lecithin ?

 

[iand]

If I recall cinnamon adds resins (ref Dave Miska) if it was me it would get the taste buds going. That bit is reserved for the 'HBH' honey bee healthy a mix lemon grass & spearmint oils with lecithin to emulsify. Bees apparently go mad for it, kicking off robbing it is so desirable. I don't know about the varroa bit except to say I just get the idea that somthing on the smelly pungent side confuses their own pheronome comunication. Every bit helps so long as the bees are happy then I am.

 

[Norton]

Hello,
I would like to expand a bit on the ingredients used.

Pollen: for obvious reasons. We have a very long summer and often the bees go straight into wintering without a fall flow. In 2010 we had the last rain at the end of February and it only rained again in the middle of December; that is nine months of drought. The bees are running pretty low at this time of the year and need protein urgently.

Soya flour: same reasons.

Lemon juice: I also add some powdered sugar to harden up the mixture, the lemon juice helps invert the sucrose but may do a bit of damage to the bees. It is a trade off and it’s only a very small amount.

Thymol: Helps in the fight against Nosema and Varroa. Our main activity is the breeding and export of queens. The vets carry out numerous checks to make sure that the bees are healthy. The last check was in December and the next one is in February. Checks are made for foulbrood, Varroa levels and sample are taken and checked for Nosema. If there is a problem then they will refuse to issue the certificate for the export. The UK is an exception to the rule in that you can still use fumidil. It’s not available for use in the rest of the EU.

Carob syrup: This is a phagostimulant. Patties with this in it are consumed in about half the time of ones that do not have it in them.

Aloe vera: This is used widely in Greece and has been found to help the bees generally probably by boosting their immune system and general well being. There are numerous reports of positive effects when fed.

Cinnamon: Another stimulant that may have antibiotic and maybe antivarroa properties.

We can also use fresh garlic: Again this is used widely in Greece to combat Varroa. Commercially produced fondant is available with garlic upon request.

Dates: These can also be used to boost the protein content of the patties – the dates are full of protein.

Whist some may view all the above with a bit of skepticism, just look at some of the commercially available products. Vita’s green and gold are good examples – are these some sort of “witches brew”? Of course not, they are products that have a whole lot of research behind them – look at the ingredients; plant extracts.
The same holds true for other products like Nosevit and Protofil.
What is fumidil anyway – a fungus.

As mentioned above, some of these products are used by beekeepers in other parts of the world. David Miksa and Randy Oliver have been mentioned. My friend Miksa produces thousand of queens and over 100,000 high quality cells for sale every year from February till October every year. He couldn’t do this without providing adequate nutrition for his bees.

Best regards
Norton.

 

[broandy]

Thanks for that Norton am of to the cooking pot yum yum nice relish

 

[drstitson]

many of the additives/eos mentioned above contain terpenes like thymol does so can't be bad.

Italians treat may paralysis with year old cherry jam!!!! (or aspirin in syrup)

 

[mbc]

Great thread.
Certainly food for thouht but it should be remembered that the long periods of dearth experienced in canada and cyprus dont happen to the same extent in our green and pleasant land and our bees should get most of what they need year round from their environment

 

[Haughton Honey]

So, after all of the input above are those who currently using EO-based recipes for their bees willing to post a few detailed and enhanced fondant/syrup recipes so that those of us who would like to start experimenting can give it a go?

 

[Somerford]

OK, so we have here some people who are huge queen breeders - producing 100,000 a year....who adultarate their bee feed...for what purpose...PURE PROFIT !!! It can be for no other reason.

The fact that some of these ingredients are stimulents....and can induce robbing....why on earth would anyone be confident in feeding them to their bees ?

I have to say that, while investigation DOES need to be done in closed environment, scientific premises to ascertain whether there are natural ingredients that remove hive pests while not in ANY WAY affecting our bees is to be applauded, I am fervent in my opinion that anyone feeding additives with no proven scientfic investigation to bees can only be harmful in the long term.

On the one hand most beekeepers are unhappy about BBKA & Bayer tie up, and yet on the other some are happy to adultorate their bee feed with ingredients, and I'll use that term in its loosest form, that are not what our bees feed on in their natural environment ?

As I said before, it smacks of Quack medication and is Utter Utter Madness, and I am saddened that some beekeepers think it is the way forward.

Think of mad cow disease and how that happened and the implications that NO ONE even considered at the outset.

regards

S

 

[BKF Admin]

Do you feed syrup or fondant Somerford ?
Do you keep bees on frames in a box ?

 

[beebop]

Will bees take fondant at this time of year? Do you just put a dollop on to the brood frames? so they don't have too far from the cluster to take it. I.ve heard that bees need more water to take it ,so in cold weather they have problems making use of it ,what do you all think ?

 

[Somerford]

Do you feed syrup or fondant Somerford ?
Do you keep bees on frames in a box ?

Mark, either you are pulling my cord or being facetious. You know the answer. I have not derided the feeding of fondant in this thread, nor the keeping of bees in a box. I have challenged with purpose the act of adulturating bee feed with extraneous ''ingredients'' that I neither agree with or feed my bees with.

S

 

[Somerford]

Will bees take fondant at this time of year? Do you just put a dollop on to the brood frames? so they don't have too far from the cluster to take it. I.ve heard that bees need more water to take it ,so in cold weather they have problems making use of it ,what do you all think ?[/QUOTE

Yes they will - out of 8 hives, 6 are currently taking it. There is moisture in it, but the bees will need to collect more when the temperature rises.

S

 

[Hivemaker.]

Plenty of scientific research done on the benefits of feeding thymol to bee's,and real life actual observations done by thousands of beekeepers.

 

[Hombre]

Essentially Beebop the bees will take fondant at any time. There will be sufficient water available either in condensation in the hive or externally as the temperatures improve.

 

[Somerford]

Plenty of scientific research done on the benefits of feeding thymol to bee's,and real life actual observations done by thousands of beekeepers.

HM - in my original post #40, I never mentioned thymol...perhaps I should have been more specific, I apologise. I was not talking about thymol, merely the ingredients mentioned in post #40 and the 'unnamed ingredients' referred to in the post I was discussing !

regards

S