DIY plastic drawn-out foundation

[ugcheleuce]

G'day everyone

As far as I know, you can't buy plastic drawn-out foundation in my country, so the second option for a hobbyist with nothing useful to do in winter is to make it oneself. I'm just trying to find out what you think the potential drawbacks of this might be and/or why doing this is bound to fail horribly.

I want to know if you think it is possible to make DIY plastic drawn-out foundation using plastic drinking straws. These straws can be bought at various thicknesses, from 4 mm right up to over 10 mm. If I can use drinking straws that are 6 mm thick, the bees might just love it.

You can cut the straws to the right size easily by grabbing a handful and slicing it with a hot wire. The heat will probably also fuse the straws together, but if not, you can always stick them to a sheet of plastic or wood.

Questions: If the bees were to fill this with honey, do you think it would be possible to use it for human consumption, given the fact that the honey would have been sitting in plastic housing for several weeks? What do you think the bees will do to the triangular holes between the cells? Do you think the bees will accept the straw foundation at all? What size do you think is safest, if the idea is to use it for honey stores? The cheapest straws that I can find are 5 mm thick -- do you think that that is too thin for the bees?

Thanks
Samuel

 

[VEG]

Why would you want to do this? lol

 

[drstitson]

drinking straws are presumably food grade so no harm honey being in them.

but

why?????? bees do it for you. using natural ingredients.



if really interested why not go the whole hog and buy a 3D printer? only £699 from a UK high street electronics shop.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/k8200-3d-printer-783902

 

[REDWOOD]

Looks like someone has all ready done it

 

[Cul a cnoic]

Why not use a 3D printer, every house will have them in a few years time.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

It's a great idea but you'd have to print them in wax or at least coat them, which wpuld be tricky but doable eventually.

 

[pargyle]

Why bother ? The bees will build their own comb quite happily (and probably more healthily) if you let them. If you are worried about the comb being stable then just use three horizontal wires in the frames ... the bees won't mind and the wires just add a bit of support. Start them off with a bit of triangular shaped wood nailed or glued to the underside of the top bar.

Making plastic foundation sounds like it's hard work and a little pointless to me - Spend your winter building hives, frames, floors, crownboards and reading bee books ... much more productive !

 

[drstitson]

"If you are worried about the comb being stable then just use three horizontal wires in the frames "

oi! don't forget the vertical option.

 

[DulwichGnome]

G'day everyone

These straws can be bought at various thicknesses, from 4 mm right up to over 10 mm. If I can use drinking straws that are 6 mm thick, the bees might just love it.

Thanks
Samuel

If you do this remember the cells need to have a 15 degree incline, straws or 3d printing. I find letting them build comb in a frame works well, with fishing line as support, and it extracts OK.

Mike.

PS if any one has a 3D model of bee cells, which I can scale up and print as a educational tool, I would be very grateful of a copy.

 

[pargyle]

"If you are worried about the comb being stable then just use three horizontal wires in the frames "

oi! don't forget the vertical option.

I don't use vertical wires ... just three horizontal ones ... seems to be quite stable as the wires go to the side bars - also a bit easier than threading wires through the top and bottom bars ?

 

[ugcheleuce]

Why would you want to do this?

Why do it?

1. Plastic drawn-out comb already exists and is being used successfully, but it is not cheap and not widely available. If a hobbyist beekeeper can do it himself with commonly available materials, then he can have what others have, but for much cheaper.

2. There are times during the year when bees need to focus on storing food and not making comb. If you find yourself in a pinch in the wrong season with not enough drawn out comb, using a plastic alternative can help you give your bees a better chance at overwintering.

It's all too easy to say "let the bees do it themselves", but what's the point of being a beekeeper if you let the bees do everything themselves? Then you're just a bee observer.

Drinking straws are presumably food grade so no harm honey being in them.

Yes, but they're not intended for long-term food storage. I'll have to look into that a bit.

If really interested why not go the whole hog and buy a 3D printer? Only £699...

Well, perhaps we have different views of hobbyism. This kinda reminds me of people who do "scrapbooking" by buying extremely expensive paper cutters. I guess for some people there is no fun in scrapbooking with just scraps.

It's a great idea but you'd have to print them in wax or at least coat them...

If we're talking about 3D printing, then there is no need to print them in wax. The reason why foundation is made from wax is because the bees "draw out" the wax, so if the foundation is made from plastic, you're not really reducing the amount of raw materials that the bees need. But if the "foundation" is already drawn out, then there is no need to use wax for it.

The same applies to the drinking straws, I would assume -- the bees will coat them with waxy substance anyway, before putting food or brood in them. The triangular holes between the "cells" will (I presume) be filled or covered with propolis.

The bees will build their own comb quite happily (and probably more healthily) if you let them.

Yes, but only if conditions are good enough.

If you are worried about the comb being stable then...

No, I'm not worried about that.

Making plastic foundation sounds like it's hard work...

Well, I suppose it would be a bit tricky to get the process right initially. You'll probably end up with several failed attempts before you get anywhere.

If you do this remember the cells need to have a 15 degree incline, straws or 3D printing.

That is a good point that I did not think about.

 

[pargyle]

Still think you are barking up the wrong tree ... plastic foundation is just that ... foundation upon which the bees will build their own comb. If they are not in the frame of mind to build comb, they won't build it and I doubt that they would used your drinking straws without first building comb of their own on top or around them ... so, if they are going to do it then let them start from scratch. Takes them no time at all if they are in the mindset to build comb ... mine built out five 14.x 12 frames of comb (without any foiundation) in just over a week !

 

[Tom Bick]

It's all too easy to say "let the bees do it themselves", but what's the point of being a beekeeper if you let the bees do everything themselves? Then you're just a bee observer.[B

Why not remove the bees from the equation all together.

If man has one big problem in life it is we think we know better no matter what it is and most of the time we just end up ******* everything up.

 

[ugcheleuce]

If they are not in the frame of mind to build comb, they won't build it and I doubt that they would used your drinking straws without first building comb of their own on top or around them...

I don't think that that is true, though. Here's why:

If you hang empty frames of drawn-out comb into a hive, the bees won't shun it. They won't deliberately not use it simply because they didn't build it themselves. If the comb is in good enough condition and they need room to store food, they'll use it (after making minimal repairs).

Am I right to say that if the bees are busy storing food and they run out of space, and they don't have sufficient raw materials to build brand new comb (e.g. the right kind of flow), then they simply stop storing food?

 

[ugcheleuce]

If man has one big problem in life it is we think we know better no matter what it is...

If I really thought that, then I would not have bothered to ask for opinions from people who have experience in dealing with the critters that have the most say in all of this.

 

[user 6228]

Plastic honeycombs are used in the manufacture of laminated structures. I m looking for some for an experiment, but not for real bees

 

[drstitson]

"also a bit easier than threading wires through the top and bottom bars ?"

why? assuming non-grooved single piece bars all round there is no difference between top/bottom or side/side wrt ease of wiring.
which is best comb wise is another matter.

 

[drstitson]

"If we're talking about 3D printing, then there is no need to print them in wax. The reason why foundation is made from wax is because the bees "draw out" the wax, so if the foundation is made from plastic, you're not really reducing the amount of raw materials that the bees need. But if the "foundation" is already drawn out, then there is no need to use wax for it."

rubbish. bees "draw out" cells wrt the central spine provided by the foundation. meaning build outwards. not magically extract extra wax from the foundation. bees make wax themselves.

they do not "use" a significant proportion of the foundation for the cell walls. it provides a plumb regular foundation (as the name suggests) for cells to be added to. saving the bees the effort of doing it themselves. from top bar down.

although you do not NEED to pre-wax plastic foundation it gives the bees a helping hand. pre-drawn might benefit from waxing of the cell edges but otherwise.....

 

[drstitson]

"Why not remove the bees from the equation all together."

great idea - buy some invert sugar, add some pollen and some E150 for colour.
no-one will be any the wiser.
no need for hive costs, wasting time with inspections.
and best of all ....

no worries about how to make 2:1 syrup or correct OA concentrations!!!!!!!

Finman would approve no doubt. leaving him and the other >1 hive beeks to get on with concentrating on producing real honey!!!!

 

[drstitson]

"Am I right to say that if the bees are busy storing food and they run out of space, and they don't have sufficient raw materials to build brand new comb (e.g. the right kind of flow), then they simply stop storing food?"

what do you think bees make comb out of?


answer - nectar (ie food)

they use some of the surplus to build new comb to make space for the remainder of the surplus.