Developing varroa resistant bees

[bazdmoore]

Every colony needs varroa treament. So simple. If you have 10 mites in February, you will have 1000 in September and 2000 in October.

I do not want to debate with you. I treated my first mite hive 1987.

No debate -absolutely true for you if you have been selecting for needing treatment since 1987

 

[bazdmoore]

Oooo looks good.
Another gadget ..... sigh

Will not give an exact count but if working with hives that do not have open mesh floor or a varroa board it is a useful tool for monitoring increases and selection for resistance without killing bees - very easy and quick to do

 

[Erichalfbee]

Will not give an exact count but if working with hives that do not have open mesh floor or a varroa board it is a useful tool for monitoring increases and selection for resistance without killing bees - very easy and quick to do

I usually do an accelerated drop. Works for me.

 

[bazdmoore]

I usually do an accelerated drop. Works for me.

Sure - if you have open mesh floors makes a lot of sense though does require two trips to the apiary

 

[mbc]

Oooo looks good.
Another gadget ..... sigh

If you read Randy Oliver's methodology (I know you're a fan!) rather than looking for vsh per se he's been sampling everything (or at least his boys have) and only taking forwards for breeding those, that for whatever reason, have low varroa counts. Very interesting and if I can persuade my boys to do the sampling on our bees I think I'll get them each one of these gadgets and see how they get on, information is power!

 

[Erichalfbee]

If you read Randy Oliver's methodology (I know you're a fan!) rather than looking for vsh per se he's been sampling everything (or at least his boys have) and only taking forwards for breeding those, that for whatever reason, have low varroa counts. Very interesting and if I can persuade my boys to do the sampling on our bees I think I'll get them each one of these gadgets and see how they get on, information is power!

Ceri, I wish I was thirty years younger.
I might make more of an effort

 

[Finman]

u if you have been selecting for needing treatment since 1987

You are too smart. That's the problem.

Breed the tolerant bees and send me some. I pay to you well. But black bees I do not accept.

Keep hurry. My age is 74. I do not have much time to wait.

And be carefull. I have kept bees 60 years and I am very crumpy.

 

[Finman]

If you read Randy Oliver's methodology (I know you're a fan!) rather than looking for vsh per se he's

It is only couple years ago, when Randy Oliver started to breed resistant bees himself.

Before that Randy believed that he has resistant bees, and then he was honest to himself and told that they are not.

Don't brake the surface of the pool.

B+ in Britain has bee resistant bees. Why don't you by queen from him. Or a piece of larva comb.

No need to start breeding from zero by selectind your own hives. Many in Europe has bred tolerant bees decades.

New Zealand has bought tolerant bees from Austria and from Germany. Why don't you do the same thing.

 

[bazdmoore]

You are too smart. That's the problem.

Breed the tolerant bees and send me some. I pay to you well. But black bees I do not accept.

Keep hurry. My age is 74. I do not have much time to wait.

And be carefull. I have kept bees 60 years and I am very crumpy.

I have only kept them for 50 years so still a lot to learn. My bees are bred for cold, wet and windy winters and summers - would probably not suffer enough to succeed in Finland...

 

[Finman]

I have only kept them for 50 years so still a lot to learn. My bees are bred for cold, wet and windy winters and summers - would probably not suffer enough to succeed in Finland...

I can say that after 60 years I have not much to learn. With my hive number it is not possible to breed bees. I buy ready bred queens.

All bees in Finland stand cold, wet and wind. Otherwise they will be dead in 2 years.

90% out of our bees are Italians. I have nursed Italians 50 years.


PS: it takes 1 month time, that willows start blooming here.

Finland is not a good country to breed queens and I know that neither is Britain.

Island would be better. Island isolated mating. Problem is, that at they do not have much bee flowers there. They are at same latitude as me here.

Falkland Isles would be good too but their highest temperatures are only 18C.

 

[bazdmoore]

I am not well isolated but because the breeding conditions are typically poor I think my hardy drones tend to win out over incomers. Some early willow out here but 2 weeks before most are in flower. Not enough forage for italians - would probably spend all my time feeding them.

 

[Finman]

I am not well isolated but because the breeding conditions are typically poor I think my hardy drones tend to win out over incomers. Some early willow out here but 2 weeks before most are in flower. Not enough forage for italians - would probably spend all my time feeding them.

Mating needs certain good weather, when it happens. And it needs 4 good days to be perfect.
It has nothing to do with hardy drones.

When we did not have varroa, German Black mongrels were everywhere. When last Black Bees vanished 1990, bee breeding has been easy since them.

But there are Italian bee yards too, which swarm 100% every year. And my queens mate with them.

Then there are here Feral Carniolans, which mate with my queens if I carry my mating nucs to some far away places. I do not know where those Carniolans live. They have very strong swarming tendency.

Those feral colonies make huge amount of drones, because nothing controls them.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Sugar roll or alcohol wash are the accepted methods.
If you do treat then an accelerated drop is a good way too

Something that can be done any time of year really! accelerated might drop via sublimation.

At the start I use to be a bit ocd about weights and varroa count but time is to short let alone life.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Something that can be done any time of year really! accelerated might drop via sublimation.

At the start I use to be a bit ocd about weights and varroa count but time is to short let alone life.

Are you not looking at TF?
Then doing an accelerated drop is not the way to go unless you are thinking of using icing sugar........ but I wouldn’t

 

[Curly green finger's]

Are you not looking at TF?
Then doing an accelerated drop is not the way to go unless you are thinking of using icing sugar........ but I wouldn’t

Yes but I'm talking about our colonys that aren't.
My point was that in the season OAV can be used as an excelerated might drop either sugar roll or OAV really but the OAV is imo a better indicator.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes but I'm talking about our colonys that aren't.
My point was that in the season OAV can be used as an excelerated might drop either sugar roll or OAV really but the OAV is imo a better indicator.

Maybe. It depends on the amount of brood .....if B+ is around he has a good explanation. It’s not as simple as multiplying the 24hour drop by 5 which is what I used to do.

 

[B+.]

Maybe. It depends on the amount of brood .....if B+ is around he has a good explanation. It’s not as simple as multiplying the 24hour drop by 5 which is what I used to do.

I think, what Dani is referring to is the error introduced by sampling for a short period, compared to sampling for a longer period e.g. a week and dividing the mite fall by 7.
In natural mite drop, you are looking at the number of mites per day that fall naturally to the sticky board, not "accelerated" by treating as this will not give you a representative figure.
I am currently monitoring natural mite drop and am looking at 16 in 35 days for a colony that has never been treated (0.46 mites/day).
As the colony develops, foundress mites migrate into cells just before sealing (oxalic acid does not kill them inside the sealed cells) so this is where VSH comes in - bees detect and remove reproducing mites when the bees are ~ a week old. They will later go on and do other jobs in the hive just like any other worker. It's one of those things where tasks are programmed into bees at a certain point in their lives. Anyway, they can't express this behaviour if there are no mites in the colony. I think this is where Prof Martins comments at the WBKA conference are important: if there are no mites in the colony, how can they "learn" that from older bees. Is it programmed into them, or, is it learned? Some colonies will never express that trait so I lean toward the inheritance argument.