demaree question

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Has anyone tried 'notching' cells with v young larva in the top box? Just been reading about it. If you scrape the bottom part of the cell with a hive tool carefully, so not to wreck the cell or harm its contents, it encourages nurse bees to build cells downwards & start a few supercedure type cells. Be interested if anyone has done this?
https://www.sevenoaksbeekeepers.org...s/2018/07/Demaree-Method-of-Swarm-Control.pdf

Most of the time - and most of the time the bees ignore it. I think it was Dani who shared a really interesting paper on here a few years ago about queencells and the way the bees (not us) decide which larvae get elevated to queen status. unless you notch the cells that the bees want to raise queens from, it isn't going to work.
Remember, with a Demarree, it isn't the panicked scramble to raise a queen, any queen from any larvae, the bees carefully select ard feed the queens that they want

 

[Erichalfbee]

Here you are
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0199124

 

[Antipodes]

You can see a difference quite easily, just cover that piece of queen excluder and see what happens. Compare the findings with what we get with the hole open and you will find a rash of cells built on anything viable, lots of them, as opposed to a few nicely drawn cells of the same age. There's a big difference in behaviour as well.

Do the bees open out the base of the demaree queen cell..I presume they do? I had a colony with two supersedure cells a couple of days ago, and constructed adjacent to each other. I thought I could use a knife to separate them (to get two viable ones) so I carefully cut between them. Turns out there was no space as such and I had a perfect dissection showing the pool of royal jelly and in tact grub in each cell. I was amazed at how large the base of the cells were with the royal jelly in them.. I've done a demaree and seen queen cells but not for a few years but wonder, do the bees choose the freshest comb so they can enlarge the base of the cell without being hindered by tough cocoons?

 

[Boston Bees]

after year 4 and so many frustrations of not understanding why applying methods described in books did not work and keeping poor stock I completely changed my approach

What is your approach? If you don't mind me asking? In other words, what were the key things the books got wrong?

Thanks

 

[jeff33]

What is your approach? If you don't mind me asking? In other words, what were the key things the books got wrong?

Thanks

You may be disappointed if you are expecting cutting edge beekeeping.
I started with getting good stock in from a couple of members on here and this has made a lot of difference in itself. I have also completely stop all the unnecessary faffing around which goes with beekeeping and trying my best to be proactive with swarm management.
The only manipulation I will do throughout the season on a standard hive is demaree once or twice a season if needed. I use the same board as Emyr so I can do my cell raiser using it as a cloake board or do a vertical split with any hive that has made swarm prep. All my hives in the spring will have a demaree board under the roof ready in case of.

 

[Boston Bees]

You may be disappointed if you are expecting cutting edge beekeeping.
I started with getting good stock in from a couple of members on here and this has made a lot of difference in itself. I have also completely stop all the unnecessary faffing around which goes with beekeeping and trying my best to be proactive with swarm management.
The only manipulation I will do throughout the season on a standard hive is demaree once or twice a season if needed. I use the same board as Emyr so I can do my cell raiser using it as a cloake board or do a vertical split with any hive that has made swarm prep. All my hives in the spring will have a demaree board under the roof ready in case of.

Thanks for this - not disappointed at all! Not sure what cutting edge beekeeping is to be honest

 

[Erichalfbee]

I think a lot of people fiddle with their bees when it’s not necessary. They read up about manipulations and want to try them all at once. IMO.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

 

[Swarm]

A thing of beauty, just like her mother.

 

[jeff33]

I think a lot of people fiddle with their bees when it’s not necessary. They read up about manipulations and want to try them all at once. IMO.

Only to go back the next day to undo it all over again because they read another variation to the manipulation. I have done it myself. I think it's important to find a simple method that works for you and the bees and stick with it.

 

[Murox]

Only to go back the next day to undo it all over again because they read another variation to the manipulation. I have done it myself. I think it's important to find a simple method that works for you and the bees and stick with it.

Absolutely, I recommend the KISS method.

 

[elainemary]

Do the bees open out the base of the demaree queen cell..I presume they do? I had a colony with two supersedure cells a couple of days ago, and constructed adjacent to each other. I thought I could use a knife to separate them (to get two viable ones) so I carefully cut between them. Turns out there was no space as such and I had a perfect dissection showing the pool of royal jelly and in tact grub in each cell. I was amazed at how large the base of the cells were with the royal jelly in them.. I've done a demaree and seen queen cells but not for a few years but wonder, do the bees choose the freshest comb so they can enlarge the base of the cell without being hindered by tough cocoons?

Whilst perhaps harder to build out emergency cells from darker comb, from the bees point of view choice of preferred patrilines and higher relatedness means they would still make Q cells from blacker comb, given a choice of new vs dark comb. They are driven more by selecting queens from larvae that will make the future colony fitter. See Dani’s ref above.
Newer comb probably makes grafting easier for the beekeeper, if you like to break down the cell edge to have better access to the contents. Though darker comb is better for cell punching!

 

[polymath]

Two things buzz box in Australia did some great articles on two queen hives here is a link to one of them you can find the rest through google:
https://actbeekeepers.asn.au/bee-bu...art-iii-commercial-two-queen-hive-operations/

 

[polymath]

As a result of this last year I followed. In effect I demaree'd quite a few of my hives (with top entrances) so ended up with two queen hives.

On one of them I turned it into a two queen horizontal (made some modifications due to English wet weather to a super to ensure no rain got in) and on others moved them back to Brood box, QE, Brood Box, QE, Supers all on top. They seemed quite happy. Both boxes had their own entrance and another just for the supers. With the horizontal hive it also had a third entrance during flow opened just for supers see picture.

 

[polymath]

Finally i would add that there is a book on it, hard to get hold of, more a leaflet but i have managed to get it digitally. It is called Ron Brown Two Queen System, I do not agree with everything in the book and it is quite hold.

 

[pargyle]

As a result of this last year I followed. In effect I demaree'd quite a few of my hives (with top entrances) so ended up with two queen hives.

On one of them I turned it into a two queen horizontal (made some modifications due to English wet weather to a super to ensure no rain got in) and on others moved them back to Brood box, QE, Brood Box, QE, Supers all on top. They seemed quite happy. Both boxes had their own entrance and another just for the supers. With the horizontal hive it also had a third entrance during flow opened just for supers see picture.

That's very creative... why did you decide to do two BB's horizontally for your demaree when you could have done it vertically ? Did you find t worked better or were there advantages that you perceived ? I have a horizontal hive and they do create big colonies and I can see this arrangement of yours is very well stocked with bees if the entrance queues are anything to go by ..

 

[Cuckmere couple]

Nope - I've had five in the middle before nowView attachment 24262

excellent....do you ever have supers above UBB?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

excellent....do you ever have supers above UBB?

yes

 

[Erichalfbee]

excellent....do you ever have supers above UBB?

 

[holmbee]

Only move empty frames back down to the lower Box, leave the capped frames up top until emerged

If there is no upper entrance, you will end up with an unmated virgin which could cause problems when you take down the Demarree - you will also end up with brood frames full of drone brood - something you definitely don't want.
An upper entrance avoids lot of problems and could leave you with a bonus colony - I've yet to see there being a problem running with two queens. Also, as you don't get many QC's at the best of times, the chances of them throwing a swarm out are slim.
Here's an example of a simple Demarree board for the top boxView attachment 24253View attachment 24254View attachment 24255

Hi JBM. Thanks for the pics. I will made some up shortly. Did you put the mesh hole at the far end of the board away from the entrance deliberately?