demaree question

[Erichalfbee]

I've seen differences of opinion on this topic before. Could the queen cells be best categorised as neither emergency or supersedure....so give them some other name perhaps? A fourth type of queen cell?

Demarree queen cell?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Supersedure cells are primary cells. Any cells in the top box would be emergency cells since you have not got a queen up there!

The impulse under which they are drawn is not quite the same as there is still some queen pheromone up there. So are the bees making queen cells there because they think their queen is failing? There are only ever a few and of food quality.
Oooops Jeff beat me to it

 

[elainemary]

Only move empty frames back down to the lower Box, leave the capped frames up top until emerged

If there is no upper entrance, you will end up with an unmated virgin which could cause problems when you take down the Demarree - you will also end up with brood frames full of drone brood - something you definitely don't want.
An upper entrance avoids lot of problems and could leave you with a bonus colony - I've yet to see there being a problem running with two queens. Also, as you don't get many QC's at the best of times, the chances of them throwing a swarm out are slim.
Here's an example of a simple Demarree board for the top boxView attachment 24253View attachment 24254View attachment 24255

Is the board used to create conditions for queen rearing (compared to using a regular queen excluder which I’ve seen used in other Demaree set ups)?
If so, is there a reason for using a piece of queen excluder vs mesh instead, which I’ve seen on other division boards?
Thanks

 

[Cuckmere couple]

thanks Dani

so you left two in the middle and 3 up top...wouldnt hurt to have a 3rd in middle if needed i guess either

i've always been slightly anxious of another entrance because of robbing/wasps etc but this all seems sensible and ill give it a go

a few colonies last year could have been handled this way rather than splits and a couple of pagdens which basically used the main flow (smaller yield) to re-build

 

[Erichalfbee]

Is the board used to create conditions for queen rearing (compared to using a regular queen excluder which I’ve seen used in other Demaree set ups)?
If so, is there a reason for using a piece of queen excluder vs mesh instead, which I’ve seen on other division boards?
Thanks

Yes. So that all worker bees have access to all parts of the colony

 

[jeff33]

Yes. So that all worker bees have access to all parts of the colony

which also makes it easier to unite if you wanted to bring it back down to 1 queen system.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Supersedure cells are primary cells. Any cells in the top box would be emergency cells since you have not got a queen up there!

Nonsense - you obviously still fail to understand the concept of the Demarree system

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

so you left two in the middle and 3 up top...wouldnt hurt to have a 3rd in middle if needed i guess either

Nope - I've had five in the middle before now

 

[plain_hunt]

How easy, or difficult, is it to do a Demaree with WBCs?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

How easy, or difficult, is it to do a Demaree with WBCs?

As easy or as difficult as you like really - If you do a straight Demarree without the top entrance, it's the same as doing it with a National (apart from needing more lifts) if you want a top entrance (which is a recent twist on the procedure) you just need to bodge it a bit

 

[Jonnyl]

As easy or as difficult as you like really - If you do a straight Demarree without the top entrance, it's the same as doing it with a National (apart from needing more lifts) if you want a top entrance (which is a recent twist on the procedure) you just need to bodge it a bit

JBM, would it be ok to use a snelgrove or horsley board as the split board? I have 14x12s and live in central Scotland and I'm sure I've read that demaree may not be suitable as the temps are not consistently high enough for good results. Is that fair or have I imagined it? TIA

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

JBM, would it be ok to use a snelgrove or horsley board as the split board? I have 14x12s and live in central Scotland and I'm sure I've read that demaree may not be suitable as the temps are not consistently high enough for good results. Is that fair or have I imagined it? TIA

Trouble with using a Snelgrove board (unless you have one with a central vent hole) is that you are creating two separate colonies, with Demarree the bees are always moving freely between the two boxes, The Horsley board is fine as it's basically the same as a Demarree board but without the sliding door.
If you already have a Snelgrove board, then it's an easy job to adapt it by cutting a 3"x2" inch hole in the middle and covering it with a queen excluder (I actually have a few I converted years ago) If you have neither, then making a Demarree board is the best option. I can't see why it wouldn't work in the Caledonian tundra although I can see there may be an issue if foundation is used exclusively instead of drawn comb.

 

[jeff33]

The Snelgrove board would split it into 2 different hives as there is a mesh over the hole rather than a Qx so the workers would not be able to go freely between the boxes. It is not a problem, you just run it as vertical split. Its not about the board though, you really need to understand the principle, what triggered the manipulation (pro-active or reactive), what you want to get out of the manipulation and job is a gooden.

As long as you have enough bees to keep the brood warm (top and bottom) temperature is not a problem. You need to make sure when you initially split to feed the top box as all the non flyers will be there.

 

[elainemary]

Yes. So that all worker bees have access to all parts of the colony

Thanks just wondered why the Demaree board has such a small area of queen excluder vs the other route of using a regular sized full excluder and a separate eke with a gap for a top entrance to let the drones out?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thanks just wondered why the Demaree board has such a small area of queen excluder vs the other route of using a regular sized full excluder and a separate eke with a gap for a top entrance to let the drones out?

1. cost, one punched galvanised QX and a sheet of 10mm ply can make loads loads of Demarree boards at a fraction of the price of a stack of full QX's
2. If you are combining making increase with your swarm avoidance, the small connecting hole means less queen pheromone getting up to the top box so a better chance of a decent queen cell being made.

 

[elainemary]

How easy, or difficult, is it to do a Demaree with WBCs?

You would need to make a larger eke with an entrance and a plywood type adaptor to straddle the space between the brood box and lifts. Is possible, I’ve done it. Or you could buy a Snelgrove board for WBCs from Thornes and replace the mesh in the holes in the board with a piece queen excluder. They are not inexpensive though

 

[elainemary]

1. cost, one punched galvanised QX and a sheet of 10mm ply can make loads loads of Demarree boards at a fraction of the price of a stack of full QX's
2. If you are combining making increase with your swarm avoidance, the small connecting hole means less queen pheromone getting up to the top box so a better chance of a decent queen cell being made.

Thanks makes sense

 

[jeff33]

Nope - I've had five in the middle before nowView attachment 24262

I hope your bees don't get height induced vertigo!!

 

[Swarm]

You need to make sure when you initially split to feed the top box as all the non flyers will be there.

I don't see why, they are not split and the top box would/should have ample stores on the frames.

 

[Erichalfbee]

and there are always stores in the supers below