demaree question

[elainemary]

Put supers on top....oops
No need to inspect bottom box

Think this depends how prolific the queen is and the swarming urgency of the colony. I had one colony last year where I did a Demaree moving all the brood to the top box and putting drawn comb and a bit of foundation in the bottom. Queen zipped along, foundation was drawn and filled v quickly with brood, before the brood had emerged from the top box; they swarmed within 2 weeks from the bottom box. There were no queen / swarm cells, just cups with no eggs in when I started the Demaree. Can only conclude swarming intentions were close to being initiated when I started the Demaree.
The other colony I tried it on worked a dream, 2 nice supercedure type cells in the top box and colony didn’t swarm for the rest of the season. Need to try on more this year and think I’ll keep an eye on the bottom box, though I’d prefer not to!

 

[jeff33]

I am starting to think that beekeeping is a dark art!! The majority of folks spend far too much time reading books, conflicting info, and watching videos rather than spending time looking at their bees and trying to understand their behaviour through the seasons and manipulations. Crikey, can you imagine if everyone took the Bible as the gospel, crusades would still be taking place today!!

 

[The Poot]

No, they wouldn’t.

 

[Boston Bees]

The majority of folks spend far too much time reading books, conflicting info, and watching videos rather than spending time looking at their bees and trying to understand their behaviour through the seasons and manipulations. Crikey, can you imagine if everyone took the Bible as the gospel, crusades would still be taking place today!!

I know. Books eh! We'd be better off if they had never been invented.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The trouble with books is, some are not worth reading (especially it seems, the dross that has been churned out dealing with beekeeping), and some people think that just because they've read a book, they don't need to think any more

 

[jeff33]

I know. Books eh! We'd be better off if they had never been invented.

I keep telling that to my better half every time I need to add a new book shelf on the wall!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Think this depends how prolific the queen is and the swarming urgency of the colony. I had one colony last year where I did a Demaree moving all the brood to the top box and putting drawn comb and a bit of foundation in the bottom. Queen zipped along, foundation was drawn and filled v quickly with brood, before the brood had emerged from the top box; they swarmed within 2 weeks from the bottom box. There were no queen / swarm cells, just cups with no eggs in when I started the Demaree. Can only conclude swarming intentions were close to being initiated when I started the Demaree.
The other colony I tried it on worked a dream, 2 nice supercedure type cells in the top box and colony didn’t swarm for the rest of the season. Need to try on more this year and think I’ll keep an eye on the bottom box, though I’d prefer not to!

I run 14x12. It’s never happened to me but then I keep the Demaree rolling for varying lengths of time

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have the last of my imported queens to Demaree this year and she should be prolific so I shall keep a close eye.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I am starting to think that beekeeping is a dark art!! The majority of folks spend far too much time reading books, conflicting info, and watching videos rather than spending time looking at their bees and trying to understand their behaviour through the seasons and manipulations. Crikey, can you imagine if everyone took the Bible as the gospel, crusades would still be taking place today!!

Beekeeping is not rocket science- it's far more complicated!

 

[pargyle]

I keep telling that to my better half every time I need to add a new book shelf on the wall!

There's no harm in collecting and reading bee books ... but the key is not to believe everything that is written in them and to think whether some of the ideas they perpetuate have been superceded with the benefit of more recent research, science and changing materials.

Whilst our forerunners used bits of old carpet to insulate hives in winter - with modern insulation materials there are better ways available. etc. If KIngspan had been available in 1930 beekeepers then would have been using it.

Think, consider, decide, observe .. and keep what works. Stay open minded.

 

[Swarm]

Think this depends how prolific the queen is and the swarming urgency of the colony. I had one colony last year where I did a Demaree moving all the brood to the top box and putting drawn comb and a bit of foundation in the bottom. Queen zipped along, foundation was drawn and filled v quickly with brood, before the brood had emerged from the top box; they swarmed within 2 weeks from the bottom box. There were no queen / swarm cells, just cups with no eggs in when I started the Demaree. Can only conclude swarming intentions were close to being initiated when I started the Demaree.
The other colony I tried it on worked a dream, 2 nice supercedure type cells in the top box and colony didn’t swarm for the rest of the season. Need to try on more this year and think I’ll keep an eye on the bottom box, though I’d prefer not to!

I've mentioned this before, queen laying up before upper brood emerges, she can overtake the procedure. You would be inspecting the bottom box looking to rotate frames and if I see this happening I add a second brood on top to keep the rotation going. When you have brood, five supers, upper double brood and super, it's probably best to dismantle into two colonies.

 

[Swarm]

Well there is only the one perspective. Ours is "Man made"
I can say that if you get emergency cells due to sudden queen absence you get lots of them made on all ages of larva whereas with a Demaree you get only a few. In my experience

You can see a difference quite easily, just cover that piece of queen excluder and see what happens. Compare the findings with what we get with the hole open and you will find a rash of cells built on anything viable, lots of them, as opposed to a few nicely drawn cells of the same age. There's a big difference in behaviour as well.

 

[rolande]

I am starting to think that beekeeping is a dark art!! The majority of folks spend far too much time reading books, conflicting info, and watching videos rather than spending time looking at their bees and trying to understand their behaviour through the seasons and manipulations.

i agree with the sentiment but most people don't have sufficient colony numbers to clock up hive hours during what's effectively a seasonal hobby so it's only natural that some end up speculating more than doing.

 

[Swarm]

Need to try on more this year and think I’ll keep an eye on the bottom box, though I’d prefer not to!

Always good to experiment, I'll have a few going this year with the two boxes separated by another deep, any supers will go at the top. As well as rotation, I'll be taking frames from the middle box as they are drawn so hoping to get a lot of comb this year.

 

[jeff33]

No, they wouldn’t.

Quite right, we have travel restrictions in place at the moment

 

[Erichalfbee]

You can see a difference quite easily, just cover that piece of queen excluder and see what happens. Compare the findings with what we get with the hole open and you will find a rash of cells built on anything viable, lots of them, as opposed to a few nicely drawn cells of the same age. There's a big difference in behaviour as well.

Exactly. I was hoping @beeno might read my post. It was aimed at her

 

[elainemary]

I've mentioned this before, queen laying up before upper brood emerges, she can overtake the procedure. You would be inspecting the bottom box looking to rotate frames and if I see this happening I add a second brood on top to keep the rotation going. When you have brood, five supers, upper double brood and super, it's probably best to dismantle into two colonies.

Agree. I didn't mention this in my earlier post but I did add an extra brood box and I tried frame rotation, but they were ahead of me! I really do not like super-prolific bees, in my part of the country without agricultural crops, they eat a lot of the income and I have far better honey producers that are less prolific.I've since re-queened.

 

[elainemary]

Always good to experiment, I'll have a few going this year with the two boxes separated by another deep, any supers will go at the top. As well as rotation, I'll be taking frames from the middle box as they are drawn so hoping to get a lot of comb this year.

Agree again! Like this technique of drawing comb & having plenty spare to one side.

 

[jeff33]

i agree with the sentiment but most people don't have sufficient colony numbers to clock up hive hours during what's effectively a seasonal hobby so it's only natural that some end up speculating more than doing.

Yes I fully appreciate and the other difficulty is the shortness of the season which may lead to taking 2-3 seasons to pick up something. I have only been beekeeping for 9 years but after year 4 and so many frustrations of not understanding why applying methods described in books did not work and keeping poor stock I completely changed my approach. It now seems to work for me but I will be honest I still lose a swarm or 2 or make mistakes through cutting corners.

 

[elainemary]

Has anyone tried 'notching' cells with v young larva in the top box? Just been reading about it. If you scrape the bottom part of the cell with a hive tool carefully, so not to wreck the cell or harm its contents, it encourages nurse bees to build cells downwards & start a few supercedure type cells. Be interested if anyone has done this?
https://www.sevenoaksbeekeepers.org...s/2018/07/Demaree-Method-of-Swarm-Control.pdf