Cut Out - What do I need

[Greggorio]

Ok A friend has some bees going through their wall so I investigated and it turns out the bees are going all the way through the 2ft thick stone wall (not an exaggeration, very normal in France) and past 4 floor/ceiling joists and living between the plaster ceiling and the oak flooring of the loft. So they are between 3 and 5 foot into the room. Anyway the loft floor is covered in a mud and straw mix as insulation which I have dug back (while in a bee suit, in a loft space, on a sunny day so I almost passed out at one point) and now I just need to lift the flooring and remove bees and comb. Then remove the hive from the loft which should be fun...

So my question is this, what are all the tools I should need beyond those for prising up floorboards.

Bee brush? Hive tool? empty frames? is it best to wire the comb in or I'm sure someone suggested using elastic bands for speed and ease.

Do I just carefully cut the comb away and wire it in place. How do I transfer most of the bees if I'm doing it from above? Brush them off the comb into the hive? I'd say shake but surely I'm likely to break the comb if I'm too aggressive?

Helpful comments only please

 

[Itchy]

The comb will be hot and wobbly and will damage easily.
Take a queen cage and nab her if you can.
Sharp knife, flexible narrow blade for resizing comb.

 

[will]

Hoover

 

[Somerford]

Ok A friend has some bees going through their wall so I investigated and it turns out the bees are going all the way through the 2ft thick stone wall (not an exaggeration, very normal in France) and past 4 floor/ceiling joists and living between the plaster ceiling and the oak flooring of the loft. So they are between 3 and 5 foot into the room. Anyway the loft floor is covered in a mud and straw mix as insulation which I have dug back (while in a bee suit, in a loft space, on a sunny day so I almost passed out at one point) and now I just need to lift the flooring and remove bees and comb. Then remove the hive from the loft which should be fun...

So my question is this, what are all the tools I should need beyond those for prising up floorboards.

Bee brush? Hive tool? empty frames? is it best to wire the comb in or I'm sure someone suggested using elastic bands for speed and ease.

Do I just carefully cut the comb away and wire it in place. How do I transfer most of the bees if I'm doing it from above? Brush them off the comb into the hive? I'd say shake but surely I'm likely to break the comb if I'm too aggressive?

Helpful comments only please

Cut outs or Trap outs are never plain sailing.

I think the first decision you have to make with the home owner is how distruptive to the fabric of the building will the job be ? cutting timber, roof panels etc etc you putting a foot through a ceiling you name it it can happen especially if the colony is in a confined space

then you also have to deal with the issue the bee entrance is a long way from the colony so there will be alot of bees returning to the combs once you've removed them.

I presume you have a colony or two on frames anyway...

I would construct a frame to support a brood chamber and frames with foundation on to sit adjacent to the current entrance/exit to the colony. I would then make a 6" (15cm) square plate to go over the entrance and fit a one way bee escape (not a cone) in the centre. stick it to the wall with instant grab adhesive.

Then install the hive on the frame that is fixed to the wall (or on scaffold) with the entrance as close to the bee escape as possible and put a half frame of brood with bees (liberally dusted with icing sugar) in the centre of the brood box and close it up.

As morning comes the flying bees will exit the colony and when returning will find their way blocked and enter the hive where they should be accepted as they have full bellies. You'll get an inital influx from the current flying bees.

Then over the next 21 -30 days the bees inside will hatch and mature and start flying and do the same, leaving a dwindling colony of a queen and a few nurse bees and brood.

When you feel the brood chamber is 'full' and by now they may even be drawing a queen cell out as they don't have a queen, remove the colony min 3 miles (5km) away and then seal the 1 way entrance.

at this stage it might pay to remove the combs inside and with luck you may even find the old queen - (if so make up another nuc) but it will be less messy and fewer bees to contend with.

Remove all traces of comb and seal the entrance.


I would also add to examine the wall in the first place as bees may have a main entrance but can also easily find a second....I'd imagine in such a house it probably doesn't have flashing or roof lagging/underlay so they may find a way in through the tiles/eaves too.

GOOD LUCK and do your best but don't endanger yourself or others.....DO send some photos !

KR

Stephen

 

[REDWOOD]

Bread knife, elastic bands, frames, BB, traveling screen, floor, spray bottle with water, air freshener and a tin of expanding foam.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Ok A friend has some bees going through their wall so I investigated and it turns out the bees are going all the way through the 2ft thick stone wall (not an exaggeration, very normal in France) and past 4 floor/ceiling joists and living between the plaster ceiling and the oak flooring of the loft. So they are between 3 and 5 foot into the room. Anyway the loft floor is covered in a mud and straw mix as insulation which I have dug back (while in a bee suit, in a loft space, on a sunny day so I almost passed out at one point) and now I just need to lift the flooring and remove bees and comb. Then remove the hive from the loft which should be fun...

So my question is this, what are all the tools I should need beyond those for prising up floorboards.

Bee brush? Hive tool? empty frames? is it best to wire the comb in or I'm sure someone suggested using elastic bands for speed and ease.

Do I just carefully cut the comb away and wire it in place. How do I transfer most of the bees if I'm doing it from above? Brush them off the comb into the hive? I'd say shake but surely I'm likely to break the comb if I'm too aggressive?

Helpful comments only please

You tube - J P the beeman has lots of videos of hiving cut outs as well as taking swarms. Just don't expect to get away with his level of protection against stings

 

[beeno]

Hi Greggorio,
Let's be clear you are doing a cut out. Bin bags for discarded comb, honey buckets for combs with stores in, water bucket for rinsing hands in, cloth for drying hands on. Swarm box for brood combs, but I would not attempt to save all brood combs whatever method you use to attach them to a frame, depending on size of the colony. Use spare drawn comb in the box if you have any. Trick is obviously to find the queen and cage her and place her in the swarm box. Work from the outside towards the brood nest. Good lighting and a spare pair of hands is preferable. It is a slow job and it pays to be gentle. Good luck.

 

[pargyle]

I think Somerford has pretty much got it nailed - although it's never as easy as it sounds ! The only thing that I would add is that when you get to the stage where you are ready to start the actual floor board removal make sure that the room where you are working is sealed and try and get the queen into a Nuc or brood box with some of the comb (with eggs and brood if there is some) into that box and then leave them alone until it gets dark and with luck the remaining bees will end up in your box where the can be sealed in - rather than having the remaining bees making a nuisance of themselves free flying around the property .. once you have them all caputured you can remove both boxes and recombine them somewhere else.

Good luck and let us know how you get on ...

 

[misterbee82]

Removing bees from inside a dwelling is never simple for you or the bees. It generally requires an extraction point which sometimes requires creating a point of extraction. That in itself can be damaging and messy. The general recommendation is to have a good plan to reduce damages and to minimise stress to you or the colony.

 

[Plenty of honey]

Ok A friend has some bees going through their wall

Helpful comments only please

Doing a cut out is a really good way of learning a lot about a colony, bees, structure etc and everyone is completely different.

Firstly, dont be afraid to just "walk away" from the job if it looks too difficult.
Ive seen a few go pair shaped, and it easily happens!
However if you have the precise location, then go for it, if you can get at them.
Living in Brittany i know the type of construction your talking about and have seen numerous installed colonies, in the most inaccessible places.
Many you simply cant get at.

I always question the need for a cut out in the first place, as i alway say it should never be a source of bees for yourself, it should only be as a last resort, if the colony is otherwise due to be removed by specialist insect removal company and treated with insecticide.

Wild colonies are a very special thing, despite all the rubbish thats talked about them(disease). Ok they are a pain in that they produce drones that mate with your nicely grafted stock, but these are survivor stock.

If you can leave it there, then please do so!! its probably not been bothering anyone for years.it will continue to produce swarms naturally for year to come!

Fair enough if it has to be removed, one piece of advice, is dont start too early. on the ones I've done, if you start at lunchtime, its too early, start at say 4 or 5 o'clock. then by the time you've removed most of the brood section, its getting towards late evening, you've dealt with most of the bees and by then they will be happy to reorientate themselves a little quicker, as the evening progresses. At the end of the day they will all walk in, to avoid being exposed, unprotected to the night.
Yes post some pics please.
"Somorford" has good advice!!

Best of luck!!

 

[Greggorio]

Their entrance is right by a kids bedroom and the parents want it out or killed in the next few weeks. I can definitely access it. The floorboards are not nailed down and I only need remove one and I have access.

I would love to take photos but last time I took my SLR into a dusty space the dust clogged it up and I had to pay to have it cleaned. I'm having to wear a facemask because of it as it is. That's 100+ year old clay and straw insulation for you. If the dust settles down then I will.
Right I am forearmed and will do my best!

 

[beeno]

Good luck Greggorio. Maybe you need a 'mister' to dampen the dust and control the bees as well as you cannot use smoke.

 

[Greggorio]

ahhh yes, not using smoke. i'll just have to hope for the best as no beekeepers near me that I'm aware of (well i know a few grumpy French ones but they're not likely to help me)

 

[BeeJayBee]

ahhh yes, not using smoke. i'll just have to hope for the best as no beekeepers near me that I'm aware of (well i know a few grumpy French ones but they're not likely to help me)

Get some 'Bee Quick' or whatever it's called, or something similar. It does get bees out of cavities. You might need to use a tube to get the fumes/spray to the back.

 

[Itchy]

I found that if you pump that stuff into their cavity, the colony just moves to an adjacent cavity.

 

[enrico]

Don't forget once you have started you can't stop so give yourself a whole day
E

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Don't forget once you have started you can't stop so give yourself a whole day
E

And remember to ensure you are well hydrated the whole time as well - you can drink from a water bottle through the veil - doesn't look very elegant but it works!!

 

[Plenty of honey]

And remember to ensure you are well hydrated the whole time as well - you can drink from a water bottle through the veil - doesn't look very elegant but it works!!

and the mesh does filter out the rich tea biscuits!!!!

 

[misterbee82]

Just remember to continually hydrate if it is hot in the crawl space, otherwise if the weather is cooler get the project done as quickly as is safely possible.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

And remember to ensure you are well hydrated the whole time as well - you can drink from a water bottle through the veil - doesn't look very elegant but it works!!

Perhaps just warm your leg at intervals?