Crystalised Stores

[Polyanwood]

I had my glasses on this time! On closer examination I realised that what I thought was chalkbrood last year was indeed white crystalised stores in the bottom of cells. Some of these are in an area which I hope will be brood nest within 4 weeks. Also there are a couple of slabs of it still capped.

Two questions;
1. Do you think it is ivy honey or the fondant that they have stored?
2. Do you recommend I do anything about it.

Thanks.

 

[user 382]

My first thought is that it it most likely ivy or possibly autumn syrup fed too late and not capped over (I've found this problem on some of mine!). Fondant applied late tends to be consumed rather than stored - not sure what happens to it if stored and not capped.

I too would like to know to do with frames of crystallized stores - a couple of my colonies have several such frames.

 

[gavin]

I'd just leave them in place and the bees will consume them as the brood nest expands, or maybe they will throw out the crystals. However if you have lots of ivy honey in there and you don't want it moved up into a super to mix with your spring honey (where it may taint it and cause rapid setting again) then replace some with foundation as the spring really gets underway. You could always use them again later when you need some stores for these home-raised nucs, or at the end of the season for next winter.

 

[jimbeekeeper]

Possibley the only thing to do it cut out the frame and start again!

Then heat up in pan and separate of wax and honey/fondant.

 

[grizzly]

i was going to post a similar question, just went through some supers from last year, i think they had been filled with syrup by the bees, it was very late in the year and i removed them before they capped.

i have missed about 6 frames, all still with liquid in, some cells have gone fondant white and others remain clear.

is this safe to give to bees ? or should i try rinsing out under a tap to get as much clear without melting the wax.

 

[gavin]

Hi Sweetums (I feel a bit strange typing that as I've seen your photograph at the bottom of the front page!)

Is the whiteness crystalised sugar? If so, and if there is no fermentation, you could use it as bee food. Your problem now is that the frames are shallow one.

Some may put a super with frames below a brood box so that the bees take the stores up, but I wouldn't do this shortly before a nectar flow or when you have supers on the the colony as you or your customers will end up eating it. Maybe do that after your last harvest this summer?

G.

 

[grizzly]

lol
Hi Gavin
yes i opted for the character name on my avatar - dont think i can change it. perhaps just call me andy.

I think its all sugar syrup, was going to try and rinse under a warm tap to see if any dissolves.

 

[gavin]

No, you're stuck with it now - - so ...

Hi Sweetums!

That may be one way, but I haven't tried it. It might take some time to dissolve it, so soaking for a while might be better.

G.

 

[Finman]

.
First, if you have too much winter food the hive, it is better to take away. Give it back later.

In Finland all honey will be crystallized in winter.
Sugar syrup will not.

If winter food is not capped, it takes moisture from air and begin swell and to ferment.

In autumn bees move uncapped honey to the center area where last brood emerge.

When you have crystallized honey frames, and you give the super to the hive, put 2-3 crystallized frames between brood frames. Break the cappings.
Bees will clean the frames because they want to make brood there.

Do same to winter sugar. Let bees use it in the middle of brood area.

If nectar flow is heavy and you give to them frames where you brake cappings, bees will cap cells again next day.

**************

If you have a warm and winter food frames, put 3-4 frames in the middle and the rest foundations. Bees start to clean combs for brood and at same time they build foundations.

***********

Don't feed frames outdoors. It will be a great riot and bees spoil combs.

 

[MJBee]

I had my glasses on this time! On closer examination I realised that what I thought was chalkbrood last year was indeed white crystalised stores in the bottom of cells. Some of these are in an area which I hope will be brood nest within 4 weeks. Also there are a couple of slabs of it still capped.

Two questions;
1. Do you think it is ivy honey or the fondant that they have stored?
2. Do you recommend I do anything about it.

Thanks.

Granulated honey or syrup in the potential brood nest is a pain. One method I have used with success is to dip the frame with open granulated stores in water, hold upright and return it to the hive with the cells full of water. The bees will "work" it, use the water (saves foraging time) and "usually" clear the frame. The capped slabs I'm afraid are beyond help - remove and melt down.
Good luck Mike

 

[Polyanwood]

Thanks for the replies people.

Found out there is Nosema in one of my hives today.....presume I should be throwing away the slabs of crystalised stores from that hive rather than taking off and feeding back???

 

[paulgeoffrey]

I've also noticed the same thing in both of my hives.
But, my main concern though is a white mould/fungus growth on uncapped sections of the frames of my weak hive. Is this anything to worry about? and could it be the cause of this colony dying out?
Advice would be appreciated.

Paul.

 

[Poly Hive]

Well this is what I used to do.

I put the solid combs in supers, and stacked them so that the corners were opposite, so the bees had access via the corners, and put a roof on top and left them to it.

End of the job the crystals were on the floor and the combs were whistle clean.

No sign of robbing and I did it for years.

PH

 

[Finman]

Well this is what I used to do.

I put the solid combs in supers,

Bees cannot dilute crystals there.

If you put them between brood frames, the temp is 36C and crystals begin to melt in the heat. Bees clean the frames.

I have done this hundreds of kilos of honey and no problem.

 

[Finman]

End of the job the crystals were on the floor

It was your yield

 

[Poly Hive]

Ok 2nd attempt.

I put the crystalised combs in supers and stacked them on the GROUND. Not on or in a hive.

I did this in a apiary of roughly 30 to 40 colonies and in good conditions they were ignored.

In poor weather they were worked quite well and the bees seemed to take the liquid from the cells and throw out the granules to the ground.

PH

 

[VEG]

Would this not lead to to the chance of spreading disease if present. From what you posted sounds as though any bees from the 40 odd colonies and beyond would have had access. Thought this type of free for all was to be avoided but i may be wrong.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Polyanwood.
Sorry to hear one of your colonys have nosema, could be ceranae.
putting combs out for all the bee's to clean up from far and wide,what a good idea.

 

[Poly Hive]

Disease in super combs?

Far and wide. Hivemaker in my old location bees were far and away uncommon. We are not talking England here.

However as I said robbing was never an issue. And do remember we are not talking syrup and autumn but OSR and June.

though just to get the eyebrows up I did feed adlib in autumn and there by hangs a tale.

PH

 

[Hivemaker.]

I think you will find this whole thread is talking about brood combs,and granulated honey,why at this time of year would they be talking super combs,most should of been extracted months ago. And its not only disease,its varroa as well,from perhaps any local bee owner that does not treat as they should,but oh well,nothing like getting a good early infestation of mites,or some other disease. saw a load of supers out in the middle of a field once,bee's cleaned em up lovely,then the bee inspector and i cleaned up the owners hives for him with fire, and those combs burnt well. super combs as well,yes they can also carry disease,thats why you don't just take them off a diseased colony and stick them on a healthy one. perhaps you could state this is only safe if you happen to live in a very remote part of the highlands of Scotland or some Island,because its only your own bee's that may be infected,the vast majority of beekeepers do not live in such places.
If you think this is good advice to be giving people,then i suggest you ask a bee inspector there oppinion,most think it should be a criminal offence.