Compulsory registration?

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"Who do you think would demand the right to implement This?" I was sure you meant DEFRA. That would be a nightmare. We have them looking over our shoulders all the time with all our livestock (and with good reason) but surely it would run the risk of stopping people from getting started as it has done to new goat keepers. I even know farms where they have given up pigs because of the paperwork and the way Defra have the right to come onto your property without your permission if hey think you have filled in a form incorectly! Bees are my way of relaxing away from the farm. Paperwork would really get me down.
Am I ranting?
 
Under certain conditions access/inspection is already a statutory requirement.
 
Registering apiaries for the purposes of disease control, a la BeeBase, has to be a good thing. Registering and marking individual hives to deter thieves is a waste of time. IMHO.
 
"Registering apiaries for the purposes of disease control, a la BeeBase, has to be a good thing" is on the face of it an unarguable truth, BUT (and it's a very big "but"), if you look at it a little deeper, and consider the ramifications, it may not be such a good idea at all.
For a start, there's "undue influence" by our old friends in the pesticide industry - some cynics believe that both the BBKA and DEFRA (let's be polite) are under the 'fluence of the large companies, who's only raison d'etre is to sell their toxins, who will cheerfully assure those in DEFRA that it is utterly essential that all hives be blanket bombed with Amitraz or similar on a regular basis...
As witness the completely deadly scandal of organophosphate sheepdip, another crime of similar enormity could be perpetrated should such a scheme be implemented.
As soon as people started pushing for this some time ago my warning bells were going off, and they still are - always look for the real power and motivation in such things......
 
I think that I am correct in my understanding that there has been a resurgence of new beekeepers in recent seasons (and therefore a corresponding number of new hives, pro rata) due to the publicity of bees-in-decline.

Such an expansion might bring a longer-term adverse reaction (bad PR through increase in troublesome swarms, greater potential for disease risk and so forth) exponentially with a 'new breed' of relatively inexperienced beekeepers. Possibly resulting in a reactive drive towards registration. This argument reinforces my belief that it is important to keep below the radar and to this end, training and preparation is vital. We as established beekeepers (some more than others!) can play an important part in this respect (this forum being a fine example).

I sometimes despair at the obvious serious inadequacies of some new beekeepers (occasionally evidenced by the most fundamentally 'basic' questions even presented here). I wonder what sort of horrible experiences are in store for them and their neighbours. I cannot stress enough, the importance of preparation and prior learning before even contemplating taking 'ownership' of that first colony.

I fully acknowledge that we all have to start somewhere but wonder whether many newcomers fully understand that bees don't really mind how their lessons are received by the new beekeeper!

I firmly believe that this business should be self-regulating as far as possible, notwithstanding the value of the services of our Bee Inspectors for the inevitable moments when things go pear-shaped. On this tangent, as far as the work of the B.I.’s go, I welcome their supervisory role and statutory powers. It is comforting to know that they are identifying and dealing with the nastier side of our endeavours, for the common good.

Of course there are other arguments for registration that will remain 'more sensitive'.
 
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Brosville - no desire to get in an extended argument with you as I know it will continue for many pages and get neither of us anywhere, so suggest we agree to differ.
 
I've voluntarily registered most of my apiaries, only 1 or 2 newer ones missing perhaps.
What is a tad concerning is the quality of the software/database. It's not user friendly IMHO and gives the impression of being done on the cheap. Makes me nervous about security. Also you can add but not remove or flag as inactive - it's a one way street.

You can register online and set up an apiary, but it insists on a map reference typed in. (Why can't it tap into placepoint style mapping like Google maps? - much easier).

Anyway, faced with abandoning what I'd already typed or trying to work out a map reference somehow, I just made up some map references. Apparently the bee inspector for Basingstoke got a bit frantic.
 
MA - I think I've raised a reasonable point - we may have to agree to differ, but I hope that at least it has raised the possibility that it may not be as clear cut a "good thing" as you presume - I'm also very well aware that certain people will leap up and down yelling "paranoia", but that's par for the course for an iconoclast like me....
I also think the whole idea is pretty unworkable, and destined to just to festoon us with even more unneeded red tape and "jobsworths" - add into the equation that our friends in Bayer have recently been making announcements about their desire to provide a whole raft of new "medicines" for bees......
FAR better to have well qualified friendly and helpful local bee inspectors which any form of beekeeper would be happy to consult in the event of problems - I want to see "independence and impartiality", sadly my experience of the min of ag and fish (as it was) suggests an innate imbalance, and partiality for the "chemical" viewpoint.
 
It seems that there can be some Beebase development of essential features if well identified and the inactive flag sounds like an essential one, given that even disused apiary sites could remain areas 'of interest' with regard to AFB for a limited period of time.

Perhaps multiple disparate requests for alternative location identification criteria over time, with apposite recommendations, might eventually produce some extra functionality there too. After all, as long as a standard form of identifiable location information is provided, then on a scheduled basis, daily or weekly, the database could be trawled for records updated since the last run and FERA preferred coords can be stored to retain a consistent official view of the data.

Everything to date is supposedly consistent, even in Basingstoke now, so there should be no great impediment. Databases, like languages are supposed to be flexible and develop a little with the passage of time. Most Google Map/Earth users tend to think in terms of decimal degree co-ords rather than the more traditional degrees, minutes, seconds. In the same way that retention of £sd would have slowed up the acceptance of hand held and other calculators.

An interesting read is the OS document A guide to coordinate systems in Great Britain.

Global and other Coordinates like time are seemingly simple concepts until the real detail is looked at. The reference is only provided for an insight or update for those that might have an inquiring mind. It is also quite alarming how recent a number of improvements in time and coordinate science have been. Like the helicopter, almost all within living memory.
 
If you are having problems with OS referencing go to ...www.streetmap.co.uk, there you will be able to find your OS reference. :)
When you have found your apiary click ...convert co-ordinates, this will give you the OS ref.
 
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Thanks for that Beeinspector. I used a much more round about method because I wasn't sufficiently familiar with the facilities provided by Streetmap.

Attached is a picture showing the option, to right of centre, at the bottom of the streetmap screen.
 
The problem with compulsory registration is that unless it's enforceable it will be pointless because there will be no incentive to register - there would be neither a carrot or a stick. To enforce it effectively would probably cost money which would have to come from somewhere - which I suspect would require funding from a beekeeper registration charge - maybe £10 per colony. It would also require penalties for non registration - which would certainly modify the role of friendly bee inspector. It could all be very counterproductive.
 
Beware of compulsory anything; it only encompasses the law abiding. The very people that are the problem will not comply.

You end up with extra cost without any extra benefit. Look at compulsory registration of horses etc.
 
How about Micro chipping the bees next lol Or ear tagging!
Taylan
 
I'll register when EVERY hobby including animals -dog agility, show animals e.g rabbits etc, budgies, canaries etc have to register too. Why should I? The hobby is of great benefit to farmers & pollination, so why force registration on us and no one else?

every competing dog has to be registered and measured by the KC before it can compete in a KC show
 
bbayer.jpg
 

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