Cleaning wet supers.

[idg]

Hi all,
After extraction I have some supers of "wet" frames. Should I place them back on the hives for cleaning? If so do I put them above the crown board (with holes) or straight on top of the brood.
Alternatively should I store them for winter in a "wet" state? If so under what conditions? Airtight etc?
Thanks

 

[theeggman]

IF the bees don't need the extra space, we put the extracted supers on above an open feeder board. If they need the space just put them back on.

Tim

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Or you can just store them wet - put the whole lot in a plastic bag and seal it up or piece of plywood top and bottom of the stack and cinched up tight with a ratchet strap or two

 

[Ely]

Or you can just store them wet - put the whole lot in a plastic bag ans seal it up or piece of plywood top and bottom of the stack and cinched up tight with a ratchet strap or two

I was going to do this but I was worried about the crystals affecting next years crop. Is this not the case?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I don't use crystals - I leave that to the ley lines brigade

 

[oliver90owner]

If they are used only as honey frames, storing wet is generally considered a good way as they are 'ready' to be cleaned up by the bees in spring and it is thought that wax moth are less attracted to them. Dry comb is not that bad for wax moth infestation, but if brooded in, they will need better attention to avoid spoilage.

My usual regime is frames, with spacers removed, into boxes about half a dozen high, with an empty brood box on top where I burn a sulphur strip occasionally, dependent on the winter conditions. These would all be dry stored frames and the boxes pulled tighty together with ratchet straps and closed ends to keep them moth proof.

Getting them cleaned up is a matter of placing over a feeder board (but still under a crown board, without gaping holes) or under the brood box for a short time. They may still be filled with nectar on occasions, when over, but rarely when under.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I store mine wet in the garden shed.
Plastic tray, a travel screen propped up on a couple of wood blocks, supers travel screen and roof. I always thought ventilation might be a good thing. bees were straight up into them this spring. There is pollen in a few frames so I will add those to the uncapped supers that will be nadired this autumn.

 

[dommod]

I was wondering about putting spun/wet supers back on the hive, but I worried that they'll just start using it an end up in an even bigger mess.

I did read somewhere (possible on here) that you put the spun supers on the bottom, not the top. Start at the bottom with your floor, but seal the entrance, then add the wet supers, then a queen excluder, then an eek with an entrance, pointing in the same direction as the original entrance, then brood boxes and everything else. This makes some sense to me as 1) the queen shouldn't be able to get into the wet supers to lay and 2) the bees will move stores up over the brood nest, cleaning out wet supers.

Also a friend at our association found some great plastic boxes at Wilkos (I can't post links yet, but I'll edit this post when I can). The little one holds (squeeze in eleven) national super frames and the large one holds national brood frames. I'm in the process of fixing two threaded rods through my new boxes to rest the frame lugs on.

 

[oliver90owner]

Dommond,

See post #6. Not long ago. I don't bother with messing around changing entrances. Enough extra work putting them under the brood for a day or so! But it gets the job done.

Queen excluders are not necessary. Think about it - the lay-rate is decreasing at this time of the year and if she were to lay down there it would mean the boxes were there rather longer than necessary for cleaning up by the bees. It would need another three days for any eggs to hatch as well! No problem as long as you are on top of the job!

 

[Ely]

Can you not put the wet boxes straight into use the next year as supers without them being cleaned first?

 

[VEG]

Can you not put the wet boxes straight into use the next year as supers without them being cleaned first?

Yes you can I do it every year.

 

[dommod]

oliver90owner,

Good point about lay rate reducing. I was just repeating what I'd read somewhere else. I would be inclined to use the excluder myself as I have one colony with an unmarked queen (she's laying ) and I'd rather be certain that she was where I expectected her to be.

However why make things harder for yourself? Slapping in an eek with an entrance and rotating the entrance block doesn't seem like that much trouble to me. You just need a bit of bad weather, an unexpected family do, and its suddenly been two weeks since you last went in.

If you can manage to store them wet and ant tight then great, but I don't have anywhere to keep them apart from the house and my wife doens't like the ants comming in.

 

[Ely]

Yes you can I do it every year.

That's me sorted then. Cheers

 

[itma]

Greater Wax Moth isn't interested in unbrooded supers (needs the old brood cocoons for protein).
Lesser Wax Moth doesn't bother whether they are wet or dry.

I do believe that wet makes them more attractive to the bees at the start of next season. Possibly even if there is some mould on them. However, that should be "even" more attractive than dry drawn comb (cos that's pretty attractive anyway).

And dry should store better (less mould, etc).

Wax Moth larvae can be terminated by Certan for at least six months after spraying - without any detriment to the bees (it is a preparation of spores of a very specifically-targetted bacterium). I've only heard of it being used on dry supers. However, it doesn't deal with larvae that have pupated, or later stages of the insect.
Acetic acid fumigation (and sulphur candles) will kill all stages of Moth present at the time of fumigation, but provide no lasting protection - that's up to your sealing.


Note that putting wet supers above an open-hole crownboard (feeder board) for scavenging CAN potentially start a hive-robbing frenzy in the apiary. Hence putting them on should (like a feeder) be done in the evening.



Personally, I'll be putting extracted (and unfinishable unextracted) frames under the brood box for scavenging, then treating with Certan and stacking the supers outdoors over winter.

Drawn comb is an asset for the newish beek that money simply can't buy - so its worth taking trouble (and spending a little money) to protect it until it is called for next year.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Yes you can I do it every year.

 

[itma]

Greater Wax Moth isn't interested in unbrooded supers (needs the old brood cocoons for protein).
Lesser Wax Moth doesn't bother whether they are wet or dry.
…

See for example https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/downloadDocument.cfm?id=206 (PDF download)

Greater Wax Moth, Galleria mellonella, … {eggs} hatch after 5–8 days into the larvae that cause the damage to bee combs. These larvae cannot ingest beeswax but eat it and live on the impurities contained therein. As a result they are generally found in the brood comb or any comb containing organic matter. …


The Lesser Wax Moth Achroia grisella ... female can lay 250-300 eggs hatching into larvae that are similar in appearance to Greater Wax Moth larvae but not as large being up to 20mm in length. Though larvae consume honey, pollen and wax they are not found in comb occupied by bees and do not damage hive components. …

 

[Swarm]

Why do people think they would go mouldy? I always store them wet, sealed in bin liners and never had a mould problem.

 

[user 382]

I usually store mine wet and the only mould I get tends to be where there's pollen, but I just scrape it out - the bees soon repair any damage.

 

[midnight sun]

Or you can just store them wet - put the whole lot in a plastic bag and seal it up or piece of plywood top and bottom of the stack and cinched up tight with a ratchet strap or two

HelloJBM
Could you just clarify for me the storing of wet supers. I am familiar with the idea and the how to (but never done it). As they are stored in this way, wouldn't the honey left, absorb moisture, possibly ferment and then could the wax go a little mouldy? Would this be a problem, or would the bees take care of all of that next time they are put on next spring (clean them up) and so there would be no detriment?
It's my first honey extraction and so would appreciate your input.
Regards Dave

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I've never had problems with mould or fermentation - what little honey there is left wouldn't do much anyway - and the bees will sort it out in the spring. I've always found that they're in there like a shot anyway. Tried it both ways (dry and wet comb) and it's wet every time for me now.