Chronic bee paralysis overnight?

[Amari]

Typed yesterday but not posted: I've promised a 2nd year beek a colony. Yesterday, in my main apiary of seven hives, we transferred the frames from my brood box into his, placed on the original site. His floor, BB, and super are brand new and painted on the outside. He placed a QEx on his BB then a super of foundation. Above that was a clearer board then a super from the old hive.

I was pleased to see BIAS and what appeared to be a thriving colony - careful inspection because we hoped to mark the Q but couldn't find her. There were no dead bees on the OMF. I can't remember whether at the beginning I observed the flying bees (I usually do before opening a hive).

This afternoon I was dismayed to find bees clustered on the landing board all of which were 'trembling'. About 1/20 had black shiny bodies. The occasional bee had pollen baskets.

All this points to CBPV but surely I would have seen evidence of this yesterday? (the bees have been flying normally until this event).

Has anyone experienced similar 'overnight'?

I've done a forum search. I note that CBPV often affects just one colony - my experience too. I note 'don't shake out'. Some advise removing the hive, others seem to 'wait and see'

Grateful or your thoughts. Sorry, no pics or vids.

 

[Wilco]

Typed yesterday but not posted: I've promised a 2nd year beek a colony. Yesterday, in my main apiary of seven hives, we transferred the frames from my brood box into his, placed on the original site. His floor, BB, and super are brand new and painted on the outside. He placed a QEx on his BB then a super of foundation. Above that was a clearer board then a super from the old hive.

I was pleased to see BIAS and what appeared to be a thriving colony - careful inspection because we hoped to mark the Q but couldn't find her. There were no dead bees on the OMF. I can't remember whether at the beginning I observed the flying bees (I usually do before opening a hive).

This afternoon I was dismayed to find bees clustered on the landing board all of which were 'trembling'. About 1/20 had black shiny bodies. The occasional bee had pollen baskets.

All this points to CBPV but surely I would have seen evidence of this yesterday? (the bees have been flying normally until this event).

Has anyone experienced similar 'overnight'?

I've done a forum search. I note that CBPV often affects just one colony - my experience too. I note 'don't shake out'. Some advise removing the hive, others seem to 'wait and see'

Grateful or your thoughts. Sorry, no pics or vids.

Remove the floor.

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/a-way-to-combat-cbpv.51048/

 

[Erichalfbee]

Removing the floor works. If you have a spare floor take the mesh out. Put an empty super on top then the brood box. Leave it for 6 weeks. That way the bees have the original entrance and a baffle in the empty super. The dead dying bees fall to the floor. Order a new queen and requeen asap. I don’t like to keep the old brood frames so I Bailey them when bees stop dying

 

[Amari]

Remove the floor.

Removing the floor works. If you have a spare floor take the mesh out. Put an empty super on top then the brood box. Leave it for 6 weeks. That way the bees have the original entrance and a baffle in the empty super. The dead dying bees fall to the floor. Order a new queen and requeen asap. I don’t like to keep the old brood frames so I Bailey them when bees stop dying

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/a-way-to-combat-cbpv.51048/

Many thanks. I'll go and do it today.

 

[pargyle]

Typed yesterday but not posted: I've promised a 2nd year beek a colony. Yesterday, in my main apiary of seven hives, we transferred the frames from my brood box into his, placed on the original site. His floor, BB, and super are brand new and painted on the outside. He placed a QEx on his BB then a super of foundation. Above that was a clearer board then a super from the old hive.

I was pleased to see BIAS and what appeared to be a thriving colony - careful inspection because we hoped to mark the Q but couldn't find her. There were no dead bees on the OMF. I can't remember whether at the beginning I observed the flying bees (I usually do before opening a hive).

This afternoon I was dismayed to find bees clustered on the landing board all of which were 'trembling'. About 1/20 had black shiny bodies. The occasional bee had pollen baskets.

All this points to CBPV but surely I would have seen evidence of this yesterday? (the bees have been flying normally until this event).

Has anyone experienced similar 'overnight'?

I've done a forum search. I note that CBPV often affects just one colony - my experience too. I note 'don't shake out'. Some advise removing the hive, others seem to 'wait and see'

Grateful or your thoughts. Sorry, no pics or vids.

Whilst it does sound very much like CBPV are you sure ?

I transferred a colony into a new hive a few years ago - it was a colony I took over from another beekeeper and I moved them from his box into mine the day after I got them home. The new box was freshly painted but with water based paint. I was very careful transferring them - a frame at a time and then shook and brushed in the stragglers left behind.

The following morning I had loads of dead bees on the landing board and quite a few that were wandering about and shaking. ... I was really worried - Everything else appeared completely normal.

I did what I often do in my beekeeping left them alone and worried about it - 24 hours later they were completely normal. I put it down to colony stress, it was early in the season, the weather wasn't great and they had been carted across a bumpy track, car journey and another wheelbarrow ride to my apiary. Then I tore them apart and moved them into a new box.

In hindsight I realised that this was probably too much for them - these days I would give them time in between moving to settle in and look for a day when the weather was really good and after they had shown that they were flying well.

I just wonder whether what you are seeing is an effect of the manipulation ? Perhaps leave them for a day or two and see what happens before messing about with them again ? I think colony stress is something that we underestimate as beekeepers and I also think that some colonies are more prone to it. Patience is a great virtue in beekeeping - a little time is not going to make any difference if they have contracted CBPV .... you can still remove the floor if the symptoms persist.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Philip is right. Hold on till you see more dead bees

 

[Amari]

Progress report:

Visited this afternoon. The bees are still clustered at the entrance on the landing board, still trembling and this time I noticed a few bees crawling about in the grass beneath the entrance.
I think I have to assume this is CBPV so I followed Dani's advice above.

Strange that I didn't notice anything amiss when going through the hive the day before - obviously I have no skills diagnosing animal diseases.

Thanks to my learned friends above and JBM for his post, quoted above.

 

[pargyle]

Progress report:

Visited this afternoon. The bees are still clustered at the entrance on the landing board, still trembling and this time I noticed a few bees crawling about in the grass beneath the entrance.
I think I have to assume this is CBPV so I followed Dani's advice above.

Strange that I didn't notice anything amiss when going through the hive the day before - obviously I have no skills diagnosing animal diseases.

Thanks to my learned friends above and JBM for his post, quoted above.

Rather sounds as though it is CBPV ... annoying for you. They can recover if you are lucky but the advice is usually to requeen when they do. You probably won't see much of a crop from them this year and it is a virus that can recurr - Leabees has just euthanased a colony as a result of recurring infection so best keep your fingers crossed. Let us know how they get on ... fortunately it does not seem to spread from colony to colony with any real virulence.

It is odd that it came on that suddenly ...

 

[Erichalfbee]

I think CBPV can come crashing down. I can report that the colony that did indeed come crashing down in September last year are doing well today. I replaced the queen ten days ago and they are in the middle of a Bailey. All seems well.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It is odd that it came on that suddenly

it does, that's the thing and probably the first signs go unnoticed so you only realise when it's in full swing.

 

[cwinte]

Adding my experience: had 2 hives die with a virus (maybe CBPV, maybe not) last summer and started to see signs in third (&last). Made an open floor solution (with a plastic cone to catch debris drop) but still an entrance, vaping port and observation board access.Those extra details meant I had to make a v2.0 open base this Spring and swap hive onto that, worth thinking through exactly what you need and get it right first time. I did not want it actually open to avoid pest/moth/robbing/wasp issues - that floor has been in place for over 6 months.
Hive is doing well with brood+1/2 looking very good, a super stuffed full and a new super now filling up.
Still waiting to see if the signs come back as the huge die off last year was late Spring to early Summer when the population was large: density=contact=transmission
I was getting mugs full of dead bees out the front more or less daily...

 

[Amari]

Progress report: I visited this afternoon and found a great increase in dead and dying bees beneath the hive.
I'll wait a couple of weeks. If I do have to cull them I wonder if burning a sulphur strip would be the kindest way? I culled my first case of CBPV c.15 years ago with petrol = horrid. For the second case c.10 years ago I put the BB in a chest freezer - no longer available.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I'll wait a couple of weeks.

You need longer. At least 4. Get a new queen in there now. She’ll save the colony for you.

 

[Amari]

It is odd that it came on that suddenly ...

I think the disease should be relabelled ABPV! In medical and probably veterinary practice, 'acute' = rapid onset and short lived eg flu or appendicitis. 'Chronic' = slower onset and longer lasting eg chronic bronchitis, diabetes.

 

[Erichalfbee]

There is already an Acute BPV. A different virus

 

[Amari]

There is already an Acute BPV. A different virus

Same or different symptoms?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Similar but more sudden
Whole colony gone in a week.
Varroa vectored

 

[Amari]

Maybe that's what it's got... - but that colony returned from the heather late September so missed the late August OA vape x3 - therefore received amitraz for several weeks Oct-Nov..

 

[Cuckmere couple]

I think CBPV can come crashing down. I can report that the colony that did indeed come crashing down in September last year are doing well today. I replaced the queen ten days ago and they are in the middle of a Bailey. All seems well.

my colony seems to be doing well too Dani....i am two weeks into a Bailey and have closed lower entrance in favour of upper entrance....11 frames of foundation and 5 now drawn and laid up....was leaving it one more week for brood from LBB to emerge and then will destroy all frames in LBB....was going to replace q next week, but notice you replaced q sooner

 

[Swarm]

The thing that concerns me with this is that any 'nasties' suspected on the old combs would surely be transferred to the new combs after sitting there for weeks.