CBPV or something else

[ericbeaumont]

didn't want to be too pedantic

No, go ahead; without detail the story cannot be understood. If charged QCs were seen and removed, and they meant to swarm, would you have noticed?

Thwarting swarm preps often leads bees to short-circuit the timeline, use an older larvae, and be gone in 5 days rather than the regulation 9.

By ECs I guess you mean emergency QCs; these would appear in the absence of the queen and her pheromone. Your queen must have gone somewhere...

 

[user 819]

Pesticide loss in the UK is ultra rare.
A pile of bees outside could be a missed swarm with a Q, if missed rain will soon lead to their demise.

If you have CBPV the hive floor will be a carpet of bees as well as a pile out side. Do you see shaking/shivering flu like bees sitting on the BB top bars.

 

[hive8]

Thanks. It's definitely nothing to do with missed swarm.

I went in yesterday evening and pulled all the frame out and inspected. There Was a couple of dead bees on the mesh floor but Nothing significant.

All the bees look good on the frame no black or hairless bees nothing that stood out.

Yet as you can see on the picture I posted earlier, quite a lot of bees dead and dying Infront of the hive

It’s more of a blanket of bees in front of the hive with some underneath the hive. Some bees shaking and spinning on their backs can't fly and just crawling. Iv been sweeping the dead bees away to try and keep the are clean. The other hive and nucs don't have any dead bees in front. Iv sat and watched under taker bees bring alive bees out and dropping them a distance from the hive. I'm un sure but going down the CBPV route and done what iv been advised.

 

[North End Bees]

Then it's CBPV. You would expect all colonies to be affected by poisoning.

Expected but not always so. A colony may easily have found a source of forage not yet found by the neighbouring colony.

Some bees shaking and spinning on their backs can't fly and just crawling.

Spinning on backs suggests poisoning.

 

[user 819]

I saw drone spinning on it's back yesterday, it was an attemmpt to right it self . I did it for him and he then flew off , I don't think he was suffering from poisoning.

 

[North End Bees]

Yes, one single upturned bee but not large numbers of them.
Unless you put the bees in a pot, shake them and tip them out, maybe then..

 

[Chris Hancock]

It may not be, as the numbers are relatively small. If it's CBPV, numbers of dead bees outside will increase dramatically daily. You might see bees refusing to allow some bees into the hive, or evicting them. You can often see some bees who don't move normally when you open the hive, they stay on the top. Often, bees who have this will hide from others who will evict them. Some bees may be shaky or shiny. You look as if these are new hives, but if they are congested and bees are kept indoors rubbing each other's hairs off, that allows the virus in and I usually give more space for bees if a prolonged spell of wet is forecast. When I first saw CBPV it was devastating and no-one seemed to have an answer. I have helped some to recover and watched the numbers reduce, by trying to make the environment clean. It might help to change the comb and box, because the virus or pathogens have to be present to get into the bees.

 

[Chris Hancock]

That was taken this afternoon after sweeping up dead bees this morning. This are was about to be graveled. But thought I'd wait to see if they perk up first.
View attachment 40631

Queens are definitely not living as long or getting mated as well recently. When I started, a queen might be productive up to 4 years, but over the past five, some have come back to lay just three frames, and others just make it to Spring if they are lucky. 2 years is now quite good. Then they leave a queenless colony at a time before there are drones about, so rearing one is not possible. Only frames of brood from the other colony can keep them happy until there are drones, and then it's hopeful for rearing a new queen.

 

[hive8]

It may not be, as the numbers are relatively small. If it's CBPV, numbers of dead bees outside will increase dramatically daily. You might see bees refusing to allow some bees into the hive, or evicting them. You can often see some bees who don't move normally when you open the hive, they stay on the top. Often, bees who have this will hide from others who will evict them. Some bees may be shaky or shiny. You look as if these are new hives, but if they are congested and bees are kept indoors rubbing each other's hairs off, that allows the virus in and I usually give more space for bees if a prolonged spell of wet is forecast. When I first saw CBPV it was devastating and no-one seemed to have an answer. I have helped some to recover and watched the numbers reduce, by trying to make the environment clean. It might help to change the comb and box, because the virus or pathogens have to be present to get into the bees.

Queens are definitely not living as long or getting mated as well recently. When I started, a queen might be productive up to 4 years, but over the past five, some have come back to lay just three frames, and others just make it to Spring if they are lucky. 2 years is now quite good. Then they leave a queenless colony at a time before there are drones about, so rearing one is not possible. Only frames of brood from the other colony can keep them happy until there are drones, and then it's hopeful for rearing a new queen.

Think my best option is to treat this as CBPV and tracheal mites, so this is my plan.

For the possibility of Tracheal mite place 50g of menthol crystals in the hive in a porous bag from what I've read this will kill them off. Along with apigaurd.

For the possibility of CBPV iv given them some extra room by running brood and half as that's what I have to hand. Keeping the area clean, Yet to take the floor off. Hit them with oxalic acid vaporiser starting tomorrow then run apigaurd as this will kill most varroa and tracheal mites.

Im not bothered about taking a honey crop this year as the weather is shocking anyway. I'd rather have healthy colony's and some over winter nuc for the start of next year.

I ran an inspection yesterday and took a video I've screen shot a section as It looks like they may have k wing. I didn't notice it until i watch the video back. Think is low numbers. Put it down to my lack of experience. It's all a learning curve.