Chemical Bee repellents for forced removals / relocations - Opinions?

[Michael ECB's]

Hi all... Regarding the safe forced removal and relocation of wild bee colonies. Yes, I'm aware chemicals are not really a great option, but given the choice, I would rather use them than simply seal up problematic colonies and/or kill them. NB! This is not to drive bees off honey supers.

I have several wild swarms currently causing havoc with the day to day operations of farming units, I'm unable to tear down walls between steel structures to remove them. Swarms also moved into tree hollows in staff gardens but want to avoid cutting down trees. I'm wanting to fit a forced trap out funnel leading into a well placed hive and force the entire colony out... This must preferably happen within hours and not weeks as in the past, trapped out bees have become quite aggressive towards both staff and animals moving around outside..
I'm hoping to drill exploratory holes in wall/tree until I find the bottom of nest then blow/pump in small amounts of safe chemical... Please also keep in mind that neither honey, brood or comb will be salvaged from these colonies, once removed, voids will be filled and entrances will be sealed up to prevent future swarms moving in..

I know about butyric acid as well as benzaldehyde which is available here in South Africa but have never used either! Any suggestions or advise would be greatly appreciated... Many thanks

 

[enrico]

I have never used chemicals but I understand that it drives them away from the chemical. I just wonder what that would achieve. The only place you could administer it would be the entrance.
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[Bear]

I think peppermint is a natural deterrent for honey bees.

 

[Michael ECB's]

I have never used chemicals but I understand that it drives them away from the chemical. I just wonder what that would achieve. The only place you could administer it would be the entrance.
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Was hoping or will drill holes in wall. (Brick wall build around steel I beams) Bees enter in at the top below roof, I would drill hole at the bottom of this column and "inject" some of the replant in, if need be, use a blower to blow fumes up... Tree would be the same thing, drill holes until you come to bottom of hollow as well as hole at the top end, inject chemical and hope for the best...

My hopes are to not have to destroy them. That would be my first prize.
We are farmers and understand the value these little creatures have... A bit of a different outlook to the usual honey harvesting business side of things,,,, that said, if I do manage to get the queen, they will be given a hive and placed somewhere safe and encouraged to do what they do..

 

[enrico]

Good luck with that. Take some photos if you can!
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[Michael ECB's]

Good luck with that. Take some photos if you can!
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Will do,,, holding back a bit in the hopes of finding this wonder product... LOL!

We just past mid winter here so dont have much time left until the beast awakens in these little girls... As soon as it warms up they are going to get very active again.... Currently in a dairy wall directly next to milking carousal...
Another one in a tree hollow next to house, guys are not able to mow the lawn, play on grass etc etc.. Holding thumbs someone here knows of a product I could make or mix up..

 

[Repwoc]

I know about butyric acid as well as benzaldehyde

Benzaldehyde is responsible for making almonds smell of almonds.

I believe butyric acid is found in vomit. The Americans add it to chocolate which makes it taste awful.

Have you thought of using Bee Quick? It is normally used to clear supers, but may persuade them to abscond.

 

[Bear]

I believe butyric acid is found in vomit. The Americans add it to chocolate which makes it taste awful.

Butyric acid, is that what the whale wars throw at the Japanese whaling boats? Could also try jays fluid.

 

[Michael ECB's]

I need to be mindful of strong smells as this is in a dairy and milk has a strange way of picking up odours... Last thing I need is fresh milk smelling like old cheese/puke...
Have tried Jays fluid before with not much success... Thus vomit smelling Butric acid is not going to work...

Has anyone ever tried Benzaldehyde ?
I believe it is now frowned upon as it leaves a residue behind in supers if used to clear supers... But as stated, this will only be used on forced trap outs and nothing salvaged from nest..

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Will do,,, holding back a bit in the hopes of finding this wonder product... LOL!

We just past mid winter here so dont have much time left until the beast awakens in these little girls... As soon as it warms up they are going to get very active again.... Currently in a dairy wall directly next to milking carousal...
Another one in a tree hollow next to house, guys are not able to mow the lawn, play on grass etc etc.. Holding thumbs someone here knows of a product I could make or mix up..

If the bees are still in winter mode using chemical displacement could turn out to be tricky. When they break cluster and start flying again would be a better time to deal with them I think. Proprietary agent I'd think of would be "Bee quick" which you could introduce via a soaked rag into the bottom hole you drill then blow the vapours through the void containing the nest with warm air from a hairdryer.
The next thing to consider is where the thousands of displaced bees will move to. You might be lucky and they enter a conveniently positioned bait hive but who knows?

 

[Michael ECB's]

If the bees are still in winter mode using chemical displacement could turn out to be tricky. When they break cluster and start flying again would be a better time to deal with them I think. Proprietary agent I'd think of would be "Bee quick" which you could introduce via a soaked rag into the bottom hole you drill then blow the vapours through the void containing the nest with warm air from a hairdryer.
The next thing to consider is where the thousands of displaced bees will move to. You might be lucky and they enter a conveniently positioned bait hive but who knows?

Thanks for reply,,,Re Beequick-cant find this here in SA and frighly expensive in our "Monopoly Money" to ship here... Also, not to give to much away about a product on the market but have been told it smells like old school wedding cake,,, "Almonds" If that is the case I know exactly what that is..Bees have already started to move with small amounts of pollen coming in.. But still very calm... My plan was to place a full brood box trap with hole in that I could run a trap out style mesh tube from wall into brood box,+- 1" funnel/tub, this would force every bee exiting to travel through the box before getting completely out... Box to have half drawn comb and half with starter strip... I though an ideal new home..

In your opinion- is the Bee Quick any good- work well?

 

[Newbeeneil]

I have trapped out bees from buildings by attaching a hive to the building connected by a one way "valve" (rhombus clearing board or similar). To keep them in the box so they don't try to return I place a frame of open brood which really calms the displaced bees if the queen is not with them.
Let's us know how you get on as I have two nests to clear in the coming weeks.


Edit. Beequick certainly works well with supers, you don't need much and is safe.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Thanks for reply,,,Re Beequick-cant find this here in SA and frighly expensive in our "Monopoly Money" to ship here... Also, not to give to much away about a product on the market but have been told it smells like old school wedding cake,,, "Almonds" If that is the case I know exactly what that is..Bees have already started to move with small amounts of pollen coming in.. But still very calm... My plan was to place a full brood box trap with hole in that I could run a trap out style mesh tube from wall into brood box,+- 1" funnel/tub, this would force every bee exiting to travel through the box before getting completely out... Box to have half drawn comb and half with starter strip... I though an ideal new home..

In your opinion- is the Bee Quick any good- work well?

Never tried it myself although I bought a box of assorted bits at a bee auction a couple of years ago and it contained a still shrink wrapped bottle. Im keeping it until such time as I need it for something like your situation. Thornes sell a repellent spray called apifuge which I've seen people use on their hands and I use to stop bees returning to swarm sites.
However Lester from Beverley Beekeepers Association, one of my contacts who died a while ago swore by it for clearing supers. He applied it to a cloth and laid it on top of the super which resulted in the bees immediately moving down to get away from it. It's also used by J P the berman in the USA if you watch his YouTube cut out videos.

 

[coffindodger]

Butyric acid is also used to flavour margarine in UK.
Don't inject it into a wall cavity where there may be metalwork; it is very corrosive.
BTW, because it is an acid using bicarbonate of soda (a buffer) is the safest way to get rid of the odour of vomit

 

[Michael ECB's]

Butyric acid is also used to flavour margarine in UK.
Don't inject it into a wall cavity where there may be metalwork; it is very corrosive.
BTW, because it is an acid using bicarbonate of soda (a buffer) is the safest way to get rid of the odour of vomit

Thanks for that "Heads Up",,I never gave it a second thought,,, actually there is a steel beam inside the bricked section housing the colony... If I use the acid based product will most definitely neutralize and flush out properly before patching up drill holes. Have managed to find a company up country who has some stock. Have ordered some Butyric acid as well as some Benzaldehyde.... Will give them both a good testing and post findings... When/If the stuff arrives....Will ask my son to perhaps record the trap out...
Update to follow - AND thanks for all the input. Much appreciated.....