What to do with an over wintered super

[Andy3Sheds]

In one of my hives, the strongest nicest one, I overwintered a part filled super above the brood box. I was advised to remove the Queen excluder in case the Queen got left behind and placed a feeder board with fondant on top. It’s been a fairly mild winter and no great interest has been taken in the fondant. If there’s no evidence of the Queen having been in the super I’ll just put a Queen excluder on remove the fondant and put a syrup feeder on and move onto my other hives. It’s my first winter with bees. From the Nuc I got last year I’ve now got 3 colonies on the go I did have problems with swarming last year and lost a clipped queen. From Queen cells I created another colony which probably should have been overwintered in a Nuc these had a part filled part drawn super nadired under the brood and fed with fondant. Like the first colony they are nice bees but didn’t seem to thrive but they have come through the winter and have made advantage of the fondant Offered. My 3rd hive were from a swarm I think from a Q cell I missed when I lost my original clipped Queen they settled 8m up in the tallest tree in the garden and had to be vacced down as a result they hate humans they were overwintered with fondant and have been most aggressive/defensive when I’ve replenished the fondant. They are the first out to forage. Arsey bastards they may be but they certainly are the most vigorous . Unfortunately they are on old donated comb which I intend to replace via a Bailey change then requeen they are the colony that needs most work I don’t have them as priority. If I deal with those that have the least need first, I’m thinking I’ll be in a better position to deal with problems. This post has expanded rather more than I expected but id appreciate any insights

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

take the fondant off now if they haven't yet consumed the stores in the super. Why do you feel the need to feed them syrup in the spring? What you don't want, going into spring is loads of stored sugar syrup left over to contaminate the fresh honey

 

[The Poot]

In one of my hives, the strongest nicest one, I overwintered a part filled super above the brood box. I was advised to remove the Queen excluder in case the Queen got left behind and placed a feeder board with fondant on top. It’s been a fairly mild winter and no great interest has been taken in the fondant. If there’s no evidence of the Queen having been in the super I’ll just put a Queen excluder on remove the fondant and put a syrup feeder on and move onto my other hives. It’s my first winter with bees. From the Nuc I got last year I’ve now got 3 colonies on the go I did have problems with swarming last year and lost a clipped queen. From Queen cells I created another colony which probably should have been overwintered in a Nuc these had a part filled part drawn super nadired under the brood and fed with fondant. Like the first colony they are nice bees but didn’t seem to thrive but they have come through the winter and have made advantage of the fondant Offered. My 3rd hive were from a swarm I think from a Q cell I missed when I lost my original clipped Queen they settled 8m up in the tallest tree in the garden and had to be vacced down as a result they hate humans they were overwintered with fondant and have been most aggressive/defensive when I’ve replenished the fondant. They are the first out to forage. Arsey bastards they may be but they certainly are the most vigorous . Unfortunately they are on old donated comb which I intend to replace via a Bailey change then requeen they are the colony that needs most work I don’t have them as priority. If I deal with those that have the least need first, I’m thinking I’ll be in a better position to deal with problems. This post has expanded rather more than I expected but id appreciate any insights

It reads like you‘re having an interesting first year!
You will most probably find the queen is in the super, as the bees would have moved up to the warmest part of the hive.
When you come to inspect, find her and put her in the brood box, then fit an excluder. The stores in the super, if likely to be sugar syrup, can be removed and replaced with frames of foundation and it becomes a super for honey storage, or the dodgy frames can be marked up so they are not taken and extracted later. Then, if you decide to leave a super on for next Winter, you‘ll have some stores already in place.
Regarding the priorities - the defensive colony will need to be assessed as they may well become calm as the season gets under way. If not, requeening will be required and you will have to wait a while, until drones are knocking about, that is if you intend to raise your own queen from a calm colony. So, concentrate on getting the calm ones properly up and running first.
Good luck with year two, let us know how you get on

 

[enrico]

Let me make a suggestion. If you have a queen that you like in your small hive then make use of her. Your stroppy hive will most likely get worse. While the hive is at its weakest on the first warm day, dispose of the queen if you can find her. This first inspection will be the quietest so try and persevere. If you find her combine that hive with your small one using whatever method you like. You do not want an aggressive colony in your second year.

 

[ericbeaumont]

I did have problems with swarming last year

Plan a strategy to manage swarming effectively and have the equipment ready to carry it out. Swarming this year is less likely as all three colonies have first-year queens, but unless they have plenty of brood space (more than one BB) you'd better be ready.

had to be vacced down as a result they hate humans

Arsey bastards they may be

Don't go down Anthropomorphis Road because it leads to nowhere useful. If the bees are defensive it's because of their genetic disposition and nothing to do with how you collected them. Do as Enrico suggested: kill the queen and unite to a better colony.

Why do you feel the need to feed them syrup in the spring?

JBM makes a good point and I reckon that you're working either by the book or advice and not by nature. Instead, look to see what is in flower and producing nectar & pollen in your part of the world in the next eight weeks. It is likely to be enough to fuel spring development, but if you have eight weeks of snow then re-consider: check weight by hefting before feeding more. Excess spring stores = limited laying space = swarming.

 

[Amari]

remove the fondant and put a syrup feeder on and move onto my other hives. It’s my first winter with bees.

. Why do you feel the need to feed them syrup in the spring?

This is a good example illustrating that there is often more than one way to manage any given situation. Many textbooks advise a spring feed of dilute syrup (1:1, 1lb sugar to 1 pint water) to stimulate colony expansion. I get the impression that most folk on the forum don't feed syrup in spring, me neither, but others may argue the opposite.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Met a beekeeper who leaves a bucket feeder on top of his colonies ALL WINTER along with fondant. Bucket gapped slightly from crownboard. Pushes them with pollen patties also. Never lost a colony over-winter. #edit as JBM below results in BIG colonies at start of season
More than one way to do things. Not for me. I leave them with a super of stores and mark these frames in spring so not extracted. Swap them out when space needed. Feed with fondant if weight drops low enough for me to worry. By first inspection in early April weight will no longer be dropping and can remove fondant.
. . . . Ben

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I get the impression that most folk on the forum don't feed syrup in spring, me neither, but others may argue the opposite.

because in most cases there is no need - unless you want to get a headstart on your queen rearing - or have jam packed colonies for an early OSR crop, what's the point of having a colony raring to go when there is precious little for them to forage?

 

[Ian123]

Never lost a colony over-winter.
. . . . Ben

Why does that always worry me

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Why does that always worry me

I don't know. He sounded very competent. His management just very different to mine. He takes control and makes his colonies perform. Extracts large honey crops. If that's how you want to define success then fine.
Met another beek who'd lost half his colonies by the beginning of February. But then he was trying to be treatment free. That I can believe.
. . .. Ben

 

[user 6228]

Why does that always worry me

because it like sounds fixed accounting ... e.g. kill or combine every less than rip roaring colony in Autumn ,call it experience or best practice because no colonies fail in winter. But in reality what has happened is you moved the losses outside the current accounting period.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

because it like sounds fixed accounting ... e.g. kill or combine every less than rip roaring colony in Autumn ,call it experience or best practice because no colonies fail in winter. But in reality what has happened is you moved the losses outside the current accounting period.

Yes. In a word, control.
This guy would make a good bee farmer. ?
. . . . Ben

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Extracts large honey sugar syrup crops

 

[user 6228]

Yes. In a word, control.
This guy would make a good bee farmer. ?
. . . . Ben

if i used whole year accounting i.e. colonies started throught out the year against colonies present on April 5th would he look so good at keeping bees?

Lets consider a factory farmer of hens, he keeps them in terrible conditions and culls the sick early, 6 weeks before the inspector arrives. This inspectors only looks at the books for deaths over the last month. Is he a good farmer?

 

[Ian123]

Yes. In a word, control.
This guy would make a good bee farmer. ?
. . . . Ben

I very much doubt it……accepting Dereks accounting you still have to allow for queen failures/disease/starvation. If your queen fails during the Winter and you chuck the rest in front of another hive have you united or lost them? For me it’s a loss
However well we prepare our hives there will be losses beyond our control, I’ve been lucky enough to meet and work with some fantastic beekeepers over the years NONE have ever been silly enough to claim zero Winter losses. I’d suggest you take any such claims with a GIGANTIC shovel of salt. I’d also be wary of any information such an individual would provide. Hell he may even possibly!!!!!be very good with bees. But he’s stupid enough to think any with a dose of experience would believe him.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I very much doubt it……accepting Dereks accounting you still have to allow for queen failures/disease/starvation. If your queen fails during the Winter and you chuck the rest in front of another hive have you united or lost them? For me it’s a loss
However well we prepare our hives there will be losses beyond our control, I’ve been lucky enough to meet and work with some fantastic beekeepers over the years NONE have ever been silly enough to claim zero Winter losses. I’d suggest you take any such claims with a GIGANTIC shovel of salt. I’d also be wary of any information such an individual would provide. Hell he may even possibly!!!!!be very good with bees. But he’s stupid enough to think any with a dose of experience would believe him.

his weird wintering programme alone makes me think there's a lot of bullsh!t slathered somewhere

 

[Parsonage Bees]

his weird wintering programme alone makes me think there's a lot of bullsh!t slathered somewhere

I don't use bucket feeders at the best of times. I find somehow the seal is broken and the contents dribble down through the colony. I've not heard of someone leaving them on overwinter inside an empty brood box with no insulation.

As this is a Beginners thread it's worth pointing out that the idea is unusual but it highlights that everyone finds their own way of keeping bees.

How much you intervene with pollen patties and sugar beyond saving a starving colony is up to you.

 

[ericbeaumont]

bucket feeders ... I find somehow the seal is broken and the contents dribble down through the colony

Contact feeders depend on a slight vacuum to hold in the syrup while allowing bees to drink it.

All very well in season, but early or late in the year when warm days & colder nights arrive, the vacuum will be lost and the contents fall through the nest.

Parsonage's friend must use pretty thick or invert syrup in winter, but it will absorb moisture and fondant is a much better choice.

https://www.stratfordbeekeepers.org.uk/2016/10/25/feeding-fondant/
https://theapiarist.org/fifes-fondant-mountain/

 

[Parsonage Bees]

https://theapiarist.org/fifes-fondant-mountain/

I'm sure this massive block of fondant works just like the bucket feeder. Stick it on and no worries. But I'd rather just leave them with their own stores and feed the odd kilo block if they need it. I'm not removing every last frame of extractable honey(profit) at the end of the year. Each to his own as long as the little darlings are happy.

Tried putting this big block of fondant on top of a hive that didn't get fed early enough the previous autumn. But we forgot the mouse excluder and the rodents enjoyed a sugar hit over-winter. Colony survived.

 

[user 6228]

k if they need it. I'm not removing every last frame of extractable honey(profit) at the end of the year. Each to his own as long as the little darlings

Contact feeders depend on a slight vacuum to hold in the syrup while allowing bees to drink it.

All very well in season, but early or late in the year when warm days & colder nights arrive, the vacuum will be lost and the contents fall through the nest.

Parsonage's friend must use pretty thick or invert syrup in winter, but it will absorb moisture and fondant is a much better choice.

https://www.stratfordbeekeepers.org.uk/2016/10/25/feeding-fondant/
https://theapiarist.org/fifes-fondant-mountain/

Ive seen these on youtube used by Canadian beekeeper with snow on the ground... (he was having difficulties)