Doff of the cap to the NBU

[Karol]

Praise where praise is due. I think the NBU have done a sterling job controlling Velutina.

It's also reassuring seeing primary nests as late as October because that affirms that Velutina struggles in our climate and ecology. Not a single sign of secondaries in June which gives comfort.

 

[Dodge]

Just watched the National Honey Show video update from Nigel Semence re: V. velentina.

In the Q&A a gentleman does state that anecdotally in Dieppe market there were significantly less Vv this year than last which suggests that the weather has taken a significant toll.

 

[Penninetrader]

Praise where praise is due. I think the NBU have done a sterling job controlling Velutina.

It's also reassuring seeing primary nests as late as October because that affirms that Velutina struggles in our climate and ecology. Not a single sign of secondaries in June which gives comfort.

Our climate this year can not be used as a baseline for how things will be in future years, caution, preparedness and vigilance should be the mantra. We have been given a breathing space this year.

 

[Karol]

Our climate this year can not be used as a baseline for how things will be in future years, caution, preparedness and vigilance should be the mantra. We have been given a breathing space this year.

Hmmm! Nature generally doesn't leave niches unfilled. If our climate and ecology could support Velutina then our native species would have already filled that space. They haven't. And there's very good reason why not and that comes down to biological constraints.

Velutina has long been established in Northern France and we've had nearly a decade of incursions without Velutina becoming established here. That's not to say we can be complacent. Far from it. But what it does mean is that our response needs to be proportionate so as not to harm indigenous vespine species.

The NBU have been brilliant.

 

[fian]

If the climate has a clear effect, which would have to be scientifically verified,
In Galicia the incidence of velutina was lower this year, so much so that in June most of the nests were still primary and in my apiary the predatory activity was not noticed until the end of August when it usually begins between one and two months before.

 

[Karol]

If the climate has a clear effect, which would have to be scientifically verified,
In Galicia the incidence of velutina was lower this year, so much so that in June most of the nests were still primary and in my apiary the predatory activity was not noticed until the end of August when it usually begins between one and two months before.

Weather does have an effect on vespines. As a company we did extensive research at monitoring field stations for vespine behaviour and activity in the development of integrated wasp management as a formal discipline which we were first to introduce to the pest control industry in the UK and then Europe. There is a direct correlation between vespine populations and weather.

The bad news for regions which have established Velutina populations because the local ecology is capable of supporting Velutina, is that late nest maturation will potentially result in higher populations of surviving queens for the following spring potentially resulting in a plague of Velutina. A lot will depend on what type of winter intervenes. If it is a cold and harsh winter followed by a warm spring then it could bring significant trouble ahead.

The UK is different because it doesn't (generally) have the ecology to support Velutina. So nests don't tend to mature in time to release competent numbers of sexuals. So far there has only been evidence of a couple of nests or so producing overwintering sexuals.

Really important work done by the NBU. But the UK has more to do to improve its native vespine populations to make its ecology even less conducive to Velutina.

 

[The Poot]

Weather does have an effect on vespines. As a company we did extensive research at monitoring field stations for vespine behaviour and activity in the development of integrated wasp management as a formal discipline which we were first to introduce to the pest control industry in the UK and then Europe. There is a direct correlation between vespine populations and weather.

The bad news for regions which have established Velutina populations because the local ecology is capable of supporting Velutina, is that late nest maturation will potentially result in higher populations of surviving queens for the following spring potentially resulting in a plague of Velutina. A lot will depend on what type of winter intervenes. If it is a cold and harsh winter followed by a warm spring then it could bring significant trouble ahead.

The UK is different because it doesn't (generally) have the ecology to support Velutina. So nests don't tend to mature in time to release competent numbers of sexuals. So far there has only been evidence of a couple of nests or so producing overwintering sexuals.

Really important work done by the NBU. But the UK has more to do to improve its native vespine populations to make its ecology even less conducive to Velutina.

What kind of improvement for natives do you mean?

 

[Karol]

What kind of improvement for natives do you mean?

Avoiding destruction of native queens especially spring trapping, avoiding use of systemic pesticides and judicial nest destruction restricted to where there is a direct threat to people.

 

[fian]

For a few months in summer, several colleagues opened posts like "Have you seen (species group Vespidae)", I just wanted to emphasize that if the decline or delay of the velutinas in Galicia and some vespinas in the UK has a strong climatic condition then:
The NBU had unexpected support and therefore should not relax believing that the current size of the device is sufficient.

 

[Karol]

For a few months in summer, several colleagues opened posts like "Have you seen (species group Vespidae)", I just wanted to emphasize that if the decline or delay of the velutinas in Galicia and some vespinas in the UK has a strong climatic condition then:
The NBU had unexpected support and therefore should not relax believing that the current size of the device is sufficient.

Weather and climate are related but are two different things. Galicia may have had unseasonal weather which impeded Velutina. The UK has a general climate that impedes Velutina. So for example, we have no polistes wasps in the UK because our climate does not support them.

I think the NBU have demonstrated consistently that they know what they are doing. It's a shame that Galicia and other parts of Europe don't have the same effective resource.

 

[fian]

Weather and climate are related but are two different things. Galicia may have had unseasonal weather which impeded Velutina. The UK has a general climate that impedes Velutina. So for example, we have no polistes wasps in the UK because our climate does not support them.

I think the NBU have demonstrated consistently that they know what they are doing. It's a shame that Galicia and other parts of Europe don't have the same effective resource.

Regarding climate, I already showed you one day that the Galician coast (where the incidence of velutina is highest) is the same as the majority of England and Wales.
The main difference is the accumulated radiation of solar energy, so the cultivation window is slightly shorter in the British case, although it is still greater than 6 months, so it is very likely that the velutina will end up settling, as on the other hand many have considered studies.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I already showed you one day that the Galician coast (where the incidence of velutina is highest) is the same as the majority of England and Wales.

but it's not though. unless you class Torquay as 'the majority of England and Wales'

 

[fian]

but it's not though. unless you class Torquay as 'the majority of England and Wales'

https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/...of-the-Average-Weather-in-Torquay-and-Viveiro
"Santa Maria de Ortigueira" is not the majority of Galicia either. By the way, in summer the Celtic Folk Music Festival is held and in the nearby "Viveiro" the black metal Resurrction Fest.

 

[Karol]

Regarding climate, I already showed you one day that the Galician coast (where the incidence of velutina is highest) is the same as the majority of England and Wales.
The main difference is the accumulated radiation of solar energy, so the cultivation window is slightly shorter in the British case, although it is still greater than 6 months, so it is very likely that the velutina will end up settling, as on the other hand many have considered studies.

I think you are still missing the point about ecology. Velutina needs high insect numbers to survive. Think wet warm marsh lands and wet warm woodlands typical of its native origins. The cultivation window you speak of might work for Velutina if the native ecology compensated for the shorter window but in the UK it doesn't. That window is further compressed by competition with native vespines that are better adapted. That's why it's critical that we don't harm these native populations.

 

[Karol]

Duplicated post removed

 

[fian]

I think you are still missing the point about ecology. Velutina needs high insect numbers to survive. Think wet warm marsh lands and wet warm woodlands typical of its native origins. The cultivation window you speak of might work for Velutina if the native ecology compensated for the shorter window but in the UK it doesn't. That window is further compressed by competition with native vespines that are better adapted. That's why it's critical that we don't harm these native populations.

As if those native vespines couldn't be as valid a food as other insects. I think you underestimate the adaptability of velutina.

 

[Karol]

As if those native vespines couldn't be as valid a food as other insects. I think you underestimate the adaptability of velutina.

Au contraire. I think the physics of biology and the biology of physics escape you.