Cautiously optimistic newbie!

[jenkinsbrynmair]

This might be a silly question, but I'll ask it anyway... With the 11 frame poly hives, do you still need a dummy board?

dummy boards are always handy, I don't know the precise inner dimensions of the Abelo poly, but 11 Hoffman brood frames in most wooden national boxes leaves a bit of extra space which needs addressing.
Which reminds me of another thing you need to consider - there is a difference between Hoffman (self spacing) frames and standard frames (DN1/2 or SN1/2) I think all 14x12 frames have Hoffman side bars but you will need a means of spacing the frames in the supers.
When you give them a whole super of foundation to work on, if the frames are spaced too far apart they will go freestyle and make a heck of a mess with brace comb all over. My advice is to space them at either 11 or (usually works) 10 to a box, I keep mine 10 t0 a box and don't space them any wiser, there is no need.
You could use Hoffman frames in the supers which gives you again 11 to a box with maybe a little space at one end, and if you like you can, once they have drawn them, take one frame out and go 10 to a box.

Your options for spacing frames are:
Hoffman side bars (broods or shallows), which makes the frames self spacing so you always have 11 to a box
Plastic frame spacers which slip over the lugs of your DN/SN 1/2 frames - an abomination loved by the dinosaurs and BBKA, fiddly and prone to slip off at the most inopportune moments, avoid them like the plague
castellated spacers, which you fix to the box and the frame lugs slot into the castellations to keep them the required distance apart., you can purchase 11,10 and 9 slot castellations (but be careful who you buy them off as some are downright awful and you risk having your fingers slashed to ribbons)
Use a plain runner (you will need some anyway if using hoffmans) and space out the frames by eye, I wouldn't recommend it unless you have a very good eye as you will end up with ill balanced frames which will be a faff when you come to using an extractor, and regardless, if you need to move or transport the supers, they will shift and slide around and make an awful mess.
Of course you also have the option of using Manley frames in the shallows, again self spacing and gives you ten to a box but as the sidebars are the same width all the way down, a bit more fiddly to remove from the box.

 

[drex]

You are waiting for a beginners course. Have you handled any bees yet? I have shown several would be beekeepers my bees. A few decided it was not for them after being in a cloud of bees, despite my queens being selected for gentleness.
I would suggest you wait until after your course until you buy anything, which will hopefully give you the chance of handling different hive formats, so you know which feels best for you. However you would then miss the winter sales, which is when I get my stuff.
There is something to be said for having a type of hive in common use in your area. I often borrowed kit in my early days.
Think you need to do a bit more reading also before your course as hive and frame formats is a very confusing area for beginners

 

[user 20297]

No.

This might be a silly question, but I'll ask it anyway... With the 11 frame poly hives, do you still need a dummy board?

There is a bit more space left over than is ideal. You can centralise the eleven frames and have a bit at each end or just ram them hard against one end, which is what I do. Maybe a few scraps of brace comb occasionally, but no big deal.
There is a bigger gap with Swienty, which take ten standard Hoffman. But I rarely use a dummy on them. Some people might welcome that flexibility when they want slightly wider spacing on honey supers.

 

[BoothBees]

I would suggest you wait until after your course until you buy anything, which will hopefully give you the chance of handling different hive formats, so you know which feels best for you.

I’m not buying yet, this is all just exploratory at the moment and I agree with you about having a go first.

There is a bit more space left over than is ideal. You can centralise the eleven frames and have a bit at each end or just ram them hard against one end, which is what I do.

Thank you!

 

[judy12]

Thanks. I just looked at a review of those and yes, I think they're be a bit tricky for me as a newly. I took at look at the 11 frame Abelo poly hive and it worked out cheaper, so better for the beginner and better for the pocket.

Thanks for the tip.

Following a few comments in this thread, all the frames I'm adding to my shopping trolley are now flat packed and I've ordered frame nails. I may as well have a go!

I wonder whether you local beekeeping association runs an auction of secondhand equipment. Our, the SBKA has an annual auction and buying there cuts costs significantly.

 

[Moobee]

Don’t discount making your own stuff. I started hammering together some old 4x2 to make ekes and then got addicted. I’ve now made a 14x12 nucleus box from an old cupboard, mesh and some shutter ply and got my hives flat pack which taught me a lot about how the hives work and how the bees move about, the flat packs come with instructions and aren’t difficult - honestly. I’m rubbish at most DIY but managed it and the mistakes I made taught me things and weren’t irreversible.

One thing I read recently is about the super frames: if you have metal runners rather than castellations on the supers, you can have fewer frames but fit them with drone foundation: you will have fewer but fatter, fuller frames to make it easier for harvesting.

If you are just starting, probably don’t put the foundation in your super frames just yet as you may not need them on a 14x12 National unless you get a large stablished colony to start with (maybe not for a year), it will take them a while to fill the deeper brood frames and the foundation in your frames may go dry or unusable. Keep them all wrapped up tight till you need them. It doesn’t take long to put them in.

Hope I’m not talking nonsense

You’re not talking rubbish at all. If wax goes a bit ‘stale’ you can run a warm hairdryer across it to ‘bring it back’.

 

[Erichalfbee]

You’re not talking rubbish at all. If wax goes a bit ‘stale’ you can run a warm hairdryer across it to ‘bring it back’.

I know a lot of people do it and I used to but I find the bees don't care. They use it with or without the bloom.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If wax goes a bit ‘stale’ you can run a warm hairdryer across it to ‘bring it back’.

Ah, that old fable. it doesn't need 'bringing back' the heat of the hive will do the trick, inherited foundation which was decades old and the bees drew it without any persuasion, when they needed it.
I think people just assume things and forget that bees will only use the foundation when it is needed not when we chuck it on and demand they draw it.

 

[Moobee]

Ah, that old fable. it doesn't need 'bringing back' the heat of the hive will do the trick, inherited foundation which was decades old and the bees drew it without any persuasion, when they needed it.
I think people just assume things and forget that bees will only use the foundation when it is needed not when we chuck it on and demand they draw it.

Good point, thank you. Wonder if I dredged that up from some early BBKA ‘advice’…..

 

[JamezF]

Wonder if I dredged that up from some early BBKA ‘advice’…..

It's what I was taught when I did the beginner's course umpteen years ago.

James

 

[BoothBees]

In shopping around, it seems the entry costs for getting into this can range from a few hundred pounds to anything in the thousands.

I wasn't expecting to find poly hives could be cheaper than the wooden ones, but that seems to be the case at a couple of the retailers. I've also seen some hives made of wood other than cedar.

Are there any brands of poly hive that I should look at (or avoid)? I've been looking at the Abelo poly, the Honey Paw poly, and various wooden hives from Thorn, Abelo and Simon the Beekeeper.

I'm not buying yet, but I'd like to use this time to build my awareness of what I should buy and, probably more importantly, what I should avoid.

I'm not looking to buy anything for extracting or processing honey, as I won't know if it's worth getting until I know if I'm likely to get a crop in my first year.

I'm also keenly aware of some post-Christmas sales that have been announced...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Maisemore apiaries are good value for wooden, they do also have poly hives

 

[Swarm]

If you decide on the poly route, be aware of compatibility (lack of) between them, whereas wooden boxes are standard measurements no matter what the wood.

 

[user 819]

Abelo 11F National poly is compatible with all National wood hives.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Abelo 11F National poly is compatible with all National wood hives.

Which is what I use. Abelo broods, wooden and Swienty( from an earlier experiment) supers. Home made UFE floors, some solid some mesh.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

In shopping around, it seems the entry costs for getting into this can range from a few hundred pounds to anything in the thousands.

I wasn't expecting to find poly hives could be cheaper than the wooden ones, but that seems to be the case at a couple of the retailers. I've also seen some hives made of wood other than cedar.

Are there any brands of poly hive that I should look at (or avoid)? I've been looking at the Abelo poly, the Honey Paw poly, and various wooden hives from Thorn, Abelo and Simon the Beekeeper.

I'm not buying yet, but I'd like to use this time to build my awareness of what I should buy and, probably more importantly, what I should avoid.

I'm not looking to buy anything for extracting or processing honey, as I won't know if it's worth getting until I know if I'm likely to get a crop in my first year.

I'm also keenly aware of some post-Christmas sales that have been announced...

I'm entirely happy with my Mk1 Abelo polyhives which are fully compatible with wooden Nationals. The deep roofs are great for wooden hives too, light, totally weatherproof and easy to handle. Just remember not to put a hot smoker down on one.

 

[BoothBees]

I've got plenty of time to make a decision (I'm not even meeting any bees until next year), but I'm definitely considering a poly hive.

Does a poly hive also provide benefits to the bees in terms of insulation and easier wintering? The blurbs all so so, but I don't trust advertising blurbs. What's the real-world experience of this?

 

[user 819]

I've got plenty of time to make a decision (I'm not even meeting any bees until next year), but I'm definitely considering a poly hive.

Does a poly hive also provide benefits to the bees in terms of insulation and easier wintering? The blurbs all so so, but I don't trust advertising blurbs. What's the real-world experience of this?

Yes esp if a poly roof is is used or a wooden roof with 50 - 100 of pir fit to it or under it.

 

[user 819]

Which is what I use. Abelo broods, wooden and Swienty( from an earlier experiment) supers. Home made UFE floors, some solid some mesh.

Same here .

 

[Erichalfbee]

I've got plenty of time to make a decision (I'm not even meeting any bees until next year), but I'm definitely considering a poly hive.

Does a poly hive also provide benefits to the bees in terms of insulation and easier wintering? The blurbs all so so, but I don't trust advertising blurbs. What's the real-world experience of this?

I keep both poly and wood. At the moment I have one wooden hive more than I have cosies so it simply has a deep Abelo roof and some PIR on top of the crown board. The bees are clustered in this cold weather. The bees in the polys are walking about. I find that "active" bees consume fewer winter stores.

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