Can't get a queen

[sharonh]

One of my colony's swarmed Thursday gone. Was home when it started, so watched and retrieved the swarm, now in a poly nuc.
Left all but one cell in the hive, with eggs brood and food.
This colony are docile, well behaved but yesterday and today, they are very different bees. Can't even go into the yard, never mind the garden where they are kept.
My only thought was, I need to get these a new queen and get her introduced. Anything just to calm the situation. Rang our local association, none to be got. Rang other numbers that had mated queens advertised, and none to be got anywhere.
How hard is it to get a mated queen, is this just in Ireland or is it everywhere this year?


Love Beekeeping <3

 

[Stiffy]

One of my colony's swarmed Thursday gone. Was home when it started, so watched and retrieved the swarm, now in a poly nuc.
Left all but one cell in the hive, with eggs brood and food.
This colony are docile, well behaved but yesterday and today, they are very different bees. Can't even go into the yard, never mind the garden where they are kept.
My only thought was, I need to get these a new queen and get her introduced. Anything just to calm the situation. Rang our local association, none to be got. Rang other numbers that had mated queens advertised, and none to be got anywhere.
How hard is it to get a mated queen, is this just in Ireland or is it everywhere this year?


Love Beekeeping <3

When do you think the queen cell will hatch as they are sometimes peed off waiting for her?
I would be very careful introducing a bought in queen until you are confident they are q-. I would put a frame of eggs (beg, borrow) into the hive and see if they draw down queen cells, if they don't then they have a queen, mated or not, if they do start to draw down, they don't have a queen and only then would I think about introducing a new one.
Sorry not a quick fix, if they are obnoxious I would be to move away from people until they have sorted themselves out
S

 

[sharonh]

They only swarmed Thursday, and I left just one cell there. Temperament tells me, there is no virgin queen there and they are waiting for her to hatch.
Only caped cells Thursday, so left the best looking one.
Eggs and brood there also so will have to check for additional cells built since.
To make life easier, if I could have got a mated queen, and used butler cage to introduce her. Just would be a quicker way to calm all down. As is, if cell sealed Thursday when swarm emerged, then another 8 days from that to new queen hatching and another week before mating flights. At the moment it's like dodging bullets going out the door. They never were like that before the hived swarmed.




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[jenkinsbrynmair]

Patience - that's the only thing you can apply at this point - introducing a queen into a post swarm hive (however you do it) is going to be problematic IMHO. They're expecting a virgin queen in a week and all of a sudden a mated queen turns up?
Grin and bear it I'm afraid. Saying that, I bet they'll soon settle.

 

[sharonh]

Patience - that's the only thing you can apply at this point - introducing a queen into a post swarm hive (however you do it) is going to be problematic IMHO. They're expecting a virgin queen in a week and all of a sudden a mated queen turns up?
Grin and bear it I'm afraid. Saying that, I bet they'll soon settle.

Hope they do, last couple of days they were unreal.
I understand they are tetchy with no queen & waiting for one to hatch.
They are normally so docile so this is so different to have to bear.
Can understand now why people can't cope with aggressive bees, not nice.
Will see how they are tomorrow.
Hope all settles down soon, and they get back to their normal temperament .
Thanks for reply


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[enrico]

Could be the weather too. For the first time in many years I got stung for no reason at all. Straight into my throat! I was some distance away from them. Half an hour later we had thunder!
E

 

[oliver90owner]

At first read I wondered 'what the h*ll does she mean by Thursday 'gone'? Clearly they have 'or gone' or the posting would be meaningless. So, no chance of a queen emerging and every chance of extra queen cells being drawn, could it be a week ago or even longer ago?

Not even sure what 'left all but one cell' means either. Either one cell left or all, not possibly both unless 'all' was one cell!

Sensible, understandable English would just say 'Thusday' and 'removed' (or 'only left one' or something similar).

So you mean they swarmed on June the 5th and you reduced the queen cells to just the one single cell, isolated, on its own, and no more.

I am wondering precisely what their present behaviour has to do with requeening. Totally mystified. I suggest you have another thought and remove them to a place where they are of no immediate threat to all and sundry. They may need requeening if the emerging queen's progeny is of poor temperament.

End of thread?

 

[sharonh]

Could be the weather too. For the first time in many years I got stung for no reason at all. Straight into my throat! I was some distance away from them. Half an hour later we had thunder!
E

Hi enrico,
Yes weather is the same here, humid and thundery, so maybe it is playing a part. You poor thing, stung in the throat, nasty. Hope your ok.


Love Beekeeping <3

 

[BeeJayBee]

I think it's probably too soon to requeen, they may be ratty because they've only got a queen cell when they've been used to a laying queen. Or it might be the thundery weather that they don't like.

I think it's easier to work things out if a date is given, rather than a day of the week, more especially if you come back to the thread later with an update.

 

[ijcooper]

At first read I wondered 'what the h*ll does she mean by Thursday 'gone'?

She means last Thursday.

 

[Ginger19]

He knew that, just being awkward as usual!

 

[sharonh]

At first read I wondered 'what the h*ll does she mean by Thursday 'gone'? Clearly they have 'or gone' or the posting would be meaningless. So, no chance of a queen emerging and every chance of extra queen cells being drawn, could it be a week ago or even longer ago?

Not even sure what 'left all but one cell' means either. Either one cell left or all, not possibly both unless 'all' was one cell!

Sensible, understandable English would just say 'Thusday' and 'removed' (or 'only left one' or something similar).

So you mean they swarmed on June the 5th and you reduced the queen cells to just the one single cell, isolated, on its own, and no more.

I am wondering precisely what their present behaviour has to do with requeening. Totally mystified. I suggest you have another thought and remove them to a place where they are of no immediate threat to all and sundry. They may need requeening if the emerging queen's progeny is of poor temperament.

End of thread?

Oh dear,
I should have looked over that post before I put it up.
Your so right, I didn't explain too good. Sorry about that. I must have been tetchy myself because of the bees.
Did mean to say, they swarmed Thursday gone by. Should have said June 5th.
And I left one queen cell.
You figured it out anyway.
Thanks for pointing out all.
After running around the house trying to escape being stung,before posting, I'm not surprised I made mistakes .
Enrico has a point too. Weather thundery which might not be helping matters.
They are normally very docile. I hived the original queen with adhering bees that swarmed. They are fine, all settled in a poly nuc .
The bees which were left behind with one queen cell are the tetchy ones. They are only like this since their queen swarmed.
Don't have to worry about people getting stung. Live in countryside & nothing but fields around me.
They will just have to wait for their queen to hatch, and hopefully before that, they will get back to their usual temperament.
Sorry again for not explaining properly in first place.


Love Beekeeping <3

 

[sharonh]

I think it's probably too soon to requeen, they may be ratty because they've only got a queen cell when they've been used to a laying queen. Or it might be the thundery weather that they don't like.

I think it's easier to work things out if a date is given, rather than a day of the week, more especially if you come back to the thread later with an update.

I should have put the date, it was my own doing for not explaining properly.
I was as bad as the bees I think. Couldn't believe they were like that. The hives are a good distance away from the house, 50 meters I'd say at the bottom of the garden.
Went out the back of the house this morning & I was being pinged by a few bees. Had to run. I put on my bee suit to go down to have a look, and yes it was the hive that had swarmed. Bees flying all around it agitated.
I guess they ain't happy that their queen is gone, and they have to wait for this new queen to hatch, about June 13th.
Thundery weather might also have them annoyed. I hope they settle down as i have a lot to be doing in the garden without trying to dodge bees.



Love Beekeeping <3

 

[oliver90owner]

Ginger19,

He knew that, just being awkward as usual!

As usual, a comment from someone who does not think or is unable to think sensibly. It was inappropriate,not helpful, downright rude and totally out of order, IMO. You seem to be part of the large group which both cannot read properly, nor even consider the problem arising from innacurate reporting, let alone actually think out the problem to any extent whatsoever.

So, not awkward at all. Let me explain for you in clear language with appropriate underlining so that you might actually increase your knowledge by a large amount.

IF it had been over one week past or gone, the queen from the single cell left behind would be due to emerge. Any other queen cells might also be due to emerge, also. That might mean the colony is readying itself for a cast swarm. Maybe more than one. Got it yet?

If after only a couple days, that would not be the case as yet. Got it yet?

Yes, I guessed it might have been two days and not a week, but I could not be certain. Clearly, you were, so perhaps you can demonstrate how you could be so absolutely certain from a post which clearly contained some other inaccurate/totally contradictive terms.

No, I don't guess, and so give out the wrong replies, as far as possible. You might learn to do that some day in the future.

I can now hear the cogs (if there are any) grinding, totally befuddled at the possibility of multiple queen cells after they had been reduced to one. Think about it before reading my next response, which will be to Sharon. Just see if you can work it out for yourself. It is simple really, absolutely simple - well, it should be...

 

[oliver90owner]

Sharon,

I thought I made my post clear, but maybe I needed to put in an extra question mark directly after this and not just at the end of the sentence:

no chance of a queen emerging and every chance of extra queen cells being drawn

Clearly, if it was a week ago, they could have been readying to throw a cast swarm. If just a couple days, it means they would not be doing that just yet. Why? Because you reduced to one queen cell so soon after the swarm

They might (but probably not) be tetchy because the queen cell you left was no good (if you had retained a capped cell and it had been shaken at all?). Likely they were busy building extra queen cells anyway - you did actually state there were eggs and brood left behind.

So, you have forgotten the basics of culling queen cells - there could well be another ten, or even more, in there by now! They can build queen cells on three day old larvae so you need to check again, at an appropriate point, to avoid cast swarms. Bear in mind my comment re retaining a capped cell, too

Not likely (but always possible) they would be building on three day old larvae (day six in the brood cycle) with there being plenty of eggs and young larvae to go at already - but they might if there was only a single cell remaining.

Can I suggest you draw a time line and fill in all possible outcomes? Doing that might mean you would miss less of the possibilities that can occur.

RAB

 

[Heather]

Sharon, how are they for stores in the meantime? Is the hive light to lift?
If aggressive outside the hive, and maybe in a nectar gap, a small syrup feed could keep them occupied and happier whilst waiting for a queen. Obviously not a lot... don't want to fill all those cells, but my hives getting lighter and it could be just a thought.

 

[sharonh]

Sharon,

I thought I made my post clear, but maybe I needed to put in an extra question mark directly after this and not just at the end of the sentence:

no chance of a queen emerging and every chance of extra queen cells being drawn

Clearly, if it was a week ago, they could have been readying to throw a cast swarm. If just a couple days, it means they would not be doing that just yet. Why? Because you reduced to one queen cell so soon after the swarm

They might (but probably not) be tetchy because the queen cell you left was no good (if you had retained a capped cell and it had been shaken at all?). Likely they were busy building extra queen cells anyway - you did actually state there were eggs and brood left behind.

So, you have forgotten the basics of culling queen cells - there could well be another ten, or even more, in there by now! They can build queen cells on three day old larvae so you need to check again, at an appropriate point, to avoid cast swarms. Bear in mind my comment re retaining a capped cell, too

Not likely (but always possible) they would be building on three day old larvae (day six in the brood cycle) with there being plenty of eggs and young larvae to go at already - but they might if there was only a single cell remaining.

Can I suggest you draw a time line and fill in all possible outcomes? Doing that might mean you would miss less of the possibilities that can occur.

RAB

Thank you RAB,
That makes perfect sense. I will do my calculations and also check for additional q cells.
I did not shake the frame the q cell was on, as was mostly capped brood. Just lightly brushed the bees off, to make sure they had no q cells hidden from me.
I will check for additional q cells and I will leave an open charged one just incase capped one is not viable.
Thank you for the patience and advice.
Sharon



Love Beekeeping <3

 

[sharonh]

Sharon, how are they for stores in the meantime? Is the hive light to lift?
If aggressive outside the hive, and maybe in a nectar gap, a small syrup feed could keep them occupied and happier whilst waiting for a queen. Obviously not a lot... don't want to fill all those cells, but my hives getting lighter and it could be just a thought.

Hi Heather,
The hive has two full supers, and third being drawn out before swarm emerged. They are fine for food anyway. I don't have rape around so they have had lots of forage on other plants.I won't take and extract any until this month is gone.
The original queen with bees are In a poly nuc since June 5th, when swarmed. Fed them yesterday eve 1:1 syrup.
That day, I put in a frame of food & brood with rest all new frames. So the syrup should give them the energy to draw out the new wax.
Weather very thundery last few days with today the same.
I will have to check for additional cells, it's 3 days now, so they could have more built in there. Really don't fancy going near them in this weather but I don't want them throwing castes out either.
Regards
Sharon





Love Beekeeping <3

 

[Teemore]

I'll echoe RAB and suggest you relocate the problem stock to an out apiary where they will not interfere with people for a few weeks.

Its really too soon to introduce a new queen, particularly if a VQ might be running around the combs!

 

[Terry G]

Sharon, your sweetness and tolerance of those who were at the end of the queue when social graces were dished out is a lesson to us all