Best way to re-queen "Hot" hive?

[Jon.21]

I’ve had that twice
A new queen introduced and replaced as soon as she laid a little.
Once I introduced a queen under a push in cage. The bees killed her and made queen cells on the small area of frame she had laid in while under the cage.

I requeened 4 feisty hives in the last couple of months with bought in mated queens and only 1 queen survived. On 3 of them I did the black mountain method of make them hopelessly queenless then introduced cage with tab intact for 2 days then remove tab and then check in 2 weeks. Checked a week to 2 weeks later and All 3 died after they started laying as they were superseded.
The only 1 that survived was one that I had put in a nuc first with non feisty needs then later combined with newspaper with one of the feisty hives. Not sure if there is a lesson here or I was just unlucky.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I requeened 4 feisty hives in the last couple of months with bought in mated queens and only 1 queen survived. On 3 of them I did the black mountain method of make them hopelessly queenless then introduced cage with tab intact for 2 days then remove tab and then check in 2 weeks. Checked a week to 2 weeks later and All 3 died after they started laying as they were superseded.
The only 1 that survived was one that I had put in a nuc first with non feisty needs then later combined with newspaper with one of the feisty hives. Not sure if there is a lesson here or I was just unlucky.

Not unlucky.
Fiesty bees are fussy with new queens.
As a rule orange bees are happy with anything. Black bees aren’t.
As you’ve found the safest way is to introduce a laying queen via a nuc

 

[Jon.21]

Not unlucky.
Fiesty bees are fussy with new queens.
As a rule orange bees are happy with anything. Black bees aren’t.
As you’ve found the safest way is to introduce a laying queen via a nuc

Great thanks. An expensive lesson learnt

 

[Xander]

Ok, so I went to do my weekly inspection at the out apiary and all is as I left it.
The angry bees are still angry and the calm bees are calm.
I've decided to follow the line of uniting the colonies so I have just a couple of questions I can't seem to find the answer to.
1 should I put q+ hive under or over the q- hive or doesn't it matter? (I would prefer to not move the q+ hive as I don't want to risk the queen dropping out the bottom)
2 should I make a top entrance for the returning angry bees to find so they don't cause a melee at the entrance of the q+ hive which is much weaker?
3 they are both getting low on stores is it ok to feed some 1:1 syrup this time of year or will it attract wasps?
4 if I do feed should I take off the part filled super and extract so they don't store syrup in it?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

should I put q+ hive under or over the q- hive or doesn't it matter?

doesn't really matter although most of us try and put the Q+ on top - I really wouldn't worry about the queen falling out unles you plan on giving the box a damned good shake whilst moving it.

should I make a top entrance for the returning angry bees

no, the whole point is that they all use the same entrance and intermingle

 

[Xander]

Thanks JBM

 

[Erichalfbee]

As JBM.
I alwAys put queen on top if her colony is weaker.

 

[Xander]

What's the process after they have passed through the newspaper?
Do I simply transfer the frames of brood from the bottom box into the top?
The q- colony is on 8/10 frames whereas the q+ is only on 4-5/10.
Or should I leave as double brood until the colony retracts in the autumn?

 

[Erichalfbee]

What I do is move the hive over. Put a new floor in place and quietly lift the top brood onto the new floor. Check I’ve got the queen. Then reorganise the brood frames.

 

[Xander]

Ok thank you

 

[drex]

I believe it makes little difference to the bees which goes on top. Usually I will put the hive I have moved on top. I feel that eating through the newspaper etc aids their reorientation. If you have some stores in the super why feed?
I would reorganise the frames, get most of brood in top box, and centre the rest in bottom box. I would run them as doubles, until they shrink down, as you say, in Autumn. Mind you I run most of my colonies as doubles all year round.

 

[Ian123]

I believe it makes little difference to the bees which goes on top. Usually I will put the hive I have moved on top. I feel that eating through the newspaper etc aids their reorientation. If you have some stores in the super why feed?
I would reorganise the frames, get most of brood in top box, and centre the rest in bottom box. I would run them as doubles, until they shrink down, as you say, in Autumn. Mind you I run most of my colonies as doubles all year round.

Newspaper unites are normally pretty safe, but I’d place the queen right on top.
Purely because you haven’t got all those stroppy older foreign bees passing through the brood nest of the queen right colony. Thats just my thinking/logic I've nothing to base it on!

 

[Xander]

Newspaper unites are normally pretty safe, but I’d place the queen right on top.
Purely because you haven’t got all those stroppy older foreign bees passing through the brood nest of the queen right colony. Thats just my thinking/logic I've nothing to base it on!

Yes I was worried about the angry little beggars as they outnumber the calm hive by about 3-1 at least so it's calm q+ on top and nangy q- down below.
I'll post the progress once I know the results.
Thanks for everyone's input, much appreciated

 

[Xander]

The queen is dead...... Long live the queen?
I finally got a break in the weather yesterday so I went up to the out apiary to see what was what.
The calm hive had very little stores last visit so I took some syrup and a feeder, went through the hive and spotted the queen (a very dark fat one) all was well so I buttoned it up and put the feed on top.
Today I returned to do the deed, popped the top off the angry hive, found queen, squished queen.
I then did a newspaper unite with the calm hive up top.
I was quick to move the calm hive off its floor and onto the newspaper, only a handful of bees inside the floor but as there were more out foraging I've put a brood box with some frames and a roof onto the vacated floor to try and rescue the flyers until next week when I'll take it away so hopefully they'll beg their way into the combined hive next door without too much fighting (recognisable queen pheromone maybe??)
I guess I'll find out next week if it's worked.
Just hoping 4l of syrup will last the top hive long enough until they get back out foraging. There was plenty of pollen coming in today so there's forage out there, they just need the weather to cooperate.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well done....at least the horrid bees are sorted
I would have united them in the evening to catch all the foragers.