Calm or Wolf in sheeps clothing

[Polyanwood]

I would suggest you find an out apiary

I suppose my bees are wolves in wolves clothing. Ha, ha.

I may have to find an out apiary. I might put an add on Gumtree. Other possible route is that a few people have asked me to teach them to keep bees (very fashoinable I guess). Have refused since I don't really know what I am doing, but if I get desperate, I plan to help them set up a hive in return for me having my hives in their gardens.

You never know, I might have a bit more of a clue after this Summer!

With that in mind - back to preventing swarming. Come on share please.

 

[BKF Admin]

Regards knowing when a flow is on,you will see that the bees go into and out of the hive with purpose,its like Heathrow on a very busy afternoon.

You will sure know once you have seen it.

 

[Polyanwood]

So do we start supering when we see the flow is on or at a certain average temperature?

I have been perhaps too cautious previously, and then became still more cautious, once I had understood the concept of "vain space" - i.e. Finman's idea that you should not increase the air volume of the hive when it is cold, because the bees have to waste energy keeping it warm.

 

[BKF Admin]

Poly this is how I see it in simple terms:

At the end of the season the bees are using most of the combs to store honey for the winter,the Queen has less and less space to lay and the temp drops away so laying slows to a stop or almost a stop.

Come the spring the stores are empty and as the temp starts to rise the queen starts to lay,as a flow comes in the empty stores are again starting to be filled so the queen once again has less and less space to lay so the bees start to draw out queen cells and get ready to swarm.

There are of course other reasons to swarm as you will find out even if you add a super,but thats another story.

 

[jimbeekeeper]

Ok thanks.

So now we are well off topic..
I think most beginners (including myself) cannot control swarming because even if you find the queen - easy once she is marked - how do you know she has enough room to lay? Books just don't make it clear. And on top of that how do you know that there is a flow on? With a flow on, space is even more at a premium.

If you can make that clear, you will will be given a big thank you.

I am sure I will be corrected on the following, but from memory:-

You need to montior the expansion of the brood area over a given time based on the fact that a typical queen can lay on average 2000 eggs per day and on side of a national deep frame = ~2000 cells. Assuming only 60% of the area is used for egg laying, this = 1 frame per day increase in brood.

 

[mrDoe]

So do we start supering when we see the flow is on or at a certain average temperature?

I have been perhaps too cautious previously, and then became still more cautious, once I had understood the concept of "vain space" - i.e. Finman's idea that you should not increase the air volume of the hive when it is cold, because the bees have to waste energy keeping it warm.

I can only say what I do, and then expect to get shot down for it!

As soon as the weather starts to pick up and there are more days when the bees are flying then there are days when they are holed up due to poor weather, I put on one drawn super (if I have them). It's going to take a while for the colony to build up before they can start gathering in noticeable quantities of spring nectar. However once they have filed out the brood nest so they have five or six good frames of brood I'll add at least one undrawn super. The temperatures by now should be warm enough to not mind the empty space up stairs and if there is an early flow that fills the drawn super they have the empty one there to keep them busy and give you enough time to add more. It's much later in the year that I've seen colonies fill supers in just a couple of days, usually on the borage in my case, and only with the strongest colonies. However, I'm sure others will have different experiences, especially in places other than the UK.



Hope that's helpful?


Peter
Cambridge UK

 

[mrDoe]

Come the spring the stores are empty and as the temp starts to rise the queen starts to lay,as a flow comes in the empty stores are again starting to be filled so the queen once again has less and less space to lay so the bees start to draw out queen cells and get ready to swarm.

There are of course other reasons to swarm as you will find out even if you add a super,but thats another story.

Hi Admin

Foragers returning to the hive will usually dump their load directly or indirectly (not sure exactly which) into empty cells in the brood nest and quickly depart for another load. Other bees then ripen the nectar and move it up into the supers (assuming a conventional hive type)

Yes, if a hive becomes totally store bound, i.e. every space is filled, often including any space in the roof if the bees can gain access, they are likely to swarm, or even abscond (I have seen the latter once myself) However, during the night when the foragers are not collecting, the brood nest gradually get cleared out of nectar as it is stored upstairs as honey and the queen continues to lay.

I just mention this as otherwise beginners might inspect a brood nest during a nectar flow and get worried because it is full of nectar. This is normal and should not be a cause for concern, AS LONG AS there is ample room in empty super/s up top.



Best regards

Peter
Cambridge UK

 

[Poly Hive]

Super on 6 frames of brood? Wow

I wait until 8 at a min. I honestly think 6 is a good two weeks early and is most likely holding them back esp in wooden hives.

Remember the old codgers (winterbees) are still dying off unlill pretty much the end of March and that is a lot of girls to replace.

PH

 

[mrDoe]

You may well be right, but I generally do hive inspections every two weeks, and have found this works for me.

 

[BKF Admin]

Hi Admin

Foragers returning to the hive will usually dump their load directly or indirectly (not sure exactly which) into empty cells in the brood nest and quickly depart for another load. Other bees then ripen the nectar and move it up into the supers (assuming a conventional hive type)

Yes, if a hive becomes totally store bound, i.e. every space is filled, often including any space in the roof if the bees can gain access, they are likely to swarm, or even abscond (I have seen the latter once myself) However, during the night when the foragers are not collecting, the brood nest gradually get cleared out of nectar as it is stored upstairs as honey and the queen continues to lay.

I just mention this as otherwise beginners might inspect a brood nest during a nectar flow and get worried because it is full of nectar. This is normal and should not be a cause for concern, AS LONG AS there is ample room in empty super/s up top.



Best regards

Peter
Cambridge UK

Thanks Peter,I am in agreement with you.
my reply though was regards when to add the first super.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I put the first supers on in spring when they are strong enough.

 

[Polyanwood]

Very helpful.

Good to get a mental picture of the area of eggs the queen can lay each day so as to use that in the calculations.

And everyone will put the super with drawn frames directly on top of the BB (and QE if they use one)? Even if it is a bit chilly? No-one would leave a crownboard on too, to reduce the air circulation?

 

[rich]

Thanks, there has been some great tips to look out for and act on.

Yes, I did get caught out last year with supering way to late, but after this thread I'm much happier going into the spring, a plan can be thought through with all the snippets of info gleaned here.

Rich

 

[VEG]

As i didnt get the chance to put a super on last year as i got my bees late ish
in the season I only have supers with foundation. What is the best time to put these on?

 

[grizzly]

i still have over half my supers undrawn, last year i gave them syrup to help them draw it out, however the time of year was irrelevant to some degree as they were growing colonys, purchased as nucs.

 

[BKF Admin]

Sweetums do you plan on giving them a feed to help them finish off the supers?

 

[grizzly]

Hi Admin, yes i dont see why not, just a little.

I will alternate the frames a bit, 1 drawn, 1 undrawn etc, so they are not faced with a super full of foundation. That way they can store as well as draw.

Is it Spring yet .........

 

[BKF Admin]

Is it Spring yet .........

I wish!
I feel like a greyhound in the traps waiting for the rabbit to run past.
I think you can tell it is almost spring by some of the posters comments on the forum,its been a long winter and we are all waiting to get going.

 

[grizzly]

Last saturday when that sun was beaming, it was really quite warm, all three hives were flying in large numbers, so many bees were out, its the first time since last year i have been unable to walk in front of them. Fabulous.

 

[mrDoe]

If your going to sell any of your honey you must be VERY carefull with your spring feeding.

Giving them just enough to boost early development is a great idea, but enough to draw super foundation is risking some syrup ending up in your honey crop, which is illegal and carries a significant fine.

Bees only draw super comb when they have something to put in it and nowhere else to put it. They then cap off what they are storing until they need it later. Some of that can be in the brood combs that are not needed very early in the spring for brood. Later, as the brood nest expands, some of that brood comb stored syrup can be moved up into supers. If you have an early flow, even some time after you've stopped feeding syrup, this can cause your honey crop to be contaminated with syrup.

I do feed a stimulative feed in the spring, but I'd only feed with the intention of drawing combs in colonies/nucs that are a long way off being strong enough to gather a harvestable quantity of honey. I've never myself fed to get super comb drawn. One good way to get nice brood comb drawn later in the year ready for the following years nucs or aditional winter stores, is to provide brood boxes rather than supers on a borage crop. You get nice comb and borage will not crystalise in the comb.

Of course, if you don't sell honey then it's not an issue if you get a little syrup in your crop.


Peter
Cambridge UK

P.S. alternativly, add some herbs to your syrup, call it lifemel, and charge ?160lb.