The Rose Hive Method Again....Yawn???

[bobthecob]

It appears to be about letting the bees have more freedom to do their activities in the way they would do in the wild; and after all, as many people remind me when discussing bees, bees are not domesticated creatures.

I have his book, and have enjoyed reading it. Having one size of frames would indeed be very nice, and something between a national brood and super sounds about right.

However, I wouldn't say that there is anything particularly "natural" about his approach. In particular, his recommendation to crack open a huge gap in the brood nest and insert a box of foundation in it, early in the season, possibly several times, is extremely unnatural. It may well lead to huge amounts of bees, but that isn't what would happen in the wild.

Fair enough, he doesn't use a QEx, and doesn't feed, but no system or hive type forces you to do either.

His approach is built around building very large hives and very large honey crops. However, you should note that he stopped attempting to be a commercial honey producer a couple of years ago due to poor weather and poor crops (unless he has returned since?), so I am not sure his system quite passed that test either?

There is also the question of varroa, which Seeley has shown to be a particular problem in large hives of the type that Rowe features in his videos (which are excellent!).

So, give it a try by all means, but don't do it because it is somehow natural and positive for the bees, or because it allows them to do what they do in nature, because it definitely isn't the system that does that.

 

[DaveG23]

I have enjoyed reading his book and the videos are good too.

When I read the book I did think that it would be attractive to beginners, everything is laid out quite clearly, much easier than doing a few classes and then trying to do the real learning online after you have your bees and are trying to remember what you were taught in the winter months!

As for trying to be a commercial bee keeper in West cork, that could be challenging whatever system you use. Probably he has more forage than me in West kerry, judging by his videos, but even so it's a wet environment, likely with no spring crop. Selling nucs is the only way to make money from bees in the west of Ireland!

 

[thorn]

My rose hive has arrived. It had been standing empty and unused since it arrived with the original purchaser more than five years ago. I spent this afternoon getting rid of the cobwebs and dead spiders. The foundation was dry and brittle, so I'll replace that and get going with the hive next spring.
It's only three boxes, so I'll need to buy more. I am considering getting an Abelo poly brood box to use as the bottom box. I appreciate that this will stop me following Tim Rowe's method of replacing old foundation, but the plywood sides look a bit a bit thin, and I know how well colonies overwinter in a poly.
The depth of the boxes make them attractive to use as supers on my other hives if I don't end up using the hive as intended. They'll be a bit heavy, but bee buddy can do the lifting and carrying.
I'm looking forward to Seeing how it works out. Given the poor harvest in prospect for this year, I need something to look forward to.

 

[madasafish]

I looked at Rose Hives nearly a decade ago.

The thin ply walls are totally unsuited to cold climates in my view.

 

[drdrday]

I haven't handled a Rose hive before, but are the ply boxes not very heavy to lift when full of honey?
Although I like the idea of the same size boxes in theory, that's what puts me off in practice, along with the lack of insulation. I have enough trouble lifting off full national supers, especially when they're 4 or 5 supers high and I'm on tiptoes already!

 

[gmonag]

The Rose Hive Method is not about the box size or construction material. You can operate the method using wooden National supers or polystyrene Langstroth mediums or any other box. Just use one size box throughout.

 

[madasafish]

I haven't handled a Rose hive before, but are the ply boxes not very heavy to lift when full of honey?
Although I like the idea of the same size boxes in theory, that's what puts me off in practice, along with the lack of insulation. I have enough trouble lifting off full national supers, especially when they're 4 or 5 supers high and I'm on tiptoes already!

I use a set of foldable kitchen steps .Only 3 steps but enough to get to the top of six supers with ease.

 

[Ian123]

The Rose Hive Method is not about the box size or construction material. You can operate the method using wooden National supers or polystyrene Langstroth mediums or any other box. Just use one size box throughout.

Is there any aspect of the rose hive method that can’t be transferred to standard hive types at a fraction of the cost?

 

[gmonag]

Not sure I understand the question.

The method can be followed using standard hive types, as I've already explained. Just use one size of box. Which size/shape/type you use is your choice.

 

[madasafish]

My logic was:

I need to lift off supers to inspect brood box. So choose the lightest box consistent withe the hive format.

You need to inspect the brood box. And you need lots of bees for lots of honey . So bigger is better. What you don't want to do is lift a box heavier than your supers to do inspections.

You also want to be able to lift a brood box twice a year to clean/replace floors. So possibly with assistance.

Simples.

 

[gmonag]

My logic was:

I need to lift off supers to inspect brood box. So choose the lightest box consistent withe the hive format.

You need to inspect the brood box. And you need lots of bees for lots of honey . So bigger is better. What you don't want to do is lift a box heavier than your supers to do inspections.

"Your logic was" with regard to what? Are you refering to another post?

Have you even read the book or watched the videos? As I have explained (several times now) The boxes can be ANY size you like. Use shallows throughout if you wish.

You also want to be able to lift a brood box twice a year to clean/replace floors. So possibly with assistance.

Simples.

If you are refering to Rose Hives, there is no distinction between brood box and supers.

You clean and/or replace your floors twice a year?

 

[pargyle]

You clean and/or replace your floors twice a year?

And why would you want to clean the floors twice a year ? The bees usually do a perfectly adequate job of keeping the hive clean ...

 

[madasafish]

And why would you want to clean the floors twice a year ? The bees usually do a perfectly adequate job of keeping the hive clean ...

Often covered in dead bees in Spring..

 

[ericbeaumont]

Is there any aspect of the rose hive method that can’t be transferred to standard hive types at a fraction of the cost?

No, Ian.

Costs would be reduced by buying or making one size of box in bulk, and savings made by selling your QXs.

 

[fiat500bee]

I bought the book (£5.00 + postage from eBay ) Strangely, someone else clearly didn't find much use for it as it is like new. I'm halfway through it and largely leaning in favour of the ideas Tim Rowe puts forward in such a gently argued way.

I would prefer not to change hive types so early in my beekeeping life, so I'm wondering about using poly brood-boxes for everything (I know...weight etc. etc., but would probably use just say 9 frames per box and tolerate the redundant space and extra expenditure. Will I easily get a low-tech extractor which takes DN1 frames

 

[Murox]

You can adapt/adopt Tim Rowe's methodology to most hive types. I would keep to standard frames if I were you - keeps things standard and simple, not least for extraction.

 

[understanding_bees]

Having read all of the posts in the main discussion thread in the "Beehives" section I get the feeling that these hives are often considered by new beekeepers who obviously don't have the benefit of experience. Conversely, new bks. do have the benefit of being reasonably objective because of that lack of experience.

I am one of those new bks. and I have been reading and watching everything beekeeping-related on the internet for the last month. Having stumbled on Tim Rowe's video and explanations I wonder how many people are actually aware of his system in detail; because although many people are aware that he uses slightly different hive bodies, I feel that Tim is "selling" a system rather than a hive. In places there is an inference that he is re-inventing the wheel and his is a vanity project.

It appears to be about letting the bees have more freedom to do their activities in the way they would do in the wild; and after all, as many people remind me when discussing bees, bees are not domesticated creatures.

Another big feature of Tim's system is that a QE. is not used at all. I know that must lead to some messy frames of honey but according to the system, once the hive is asufficiently big stack the bees tend to store honey alone in any case.

Tim also does no feeding; I don't yet know his approach to pest and disease control.

He claims to have excellent results when measured in honey production and this is in Ireland with a cool damp climate which he says is getting damper.

His system creates a lot of bees and this seems to be one of his aims in keeping bees. He talks about creating genetic diversity by enabling a lot of reproduction and natural behaviour which encourages natural selection. I can already see that this goes counter to many of the traditional aims in beekeeping, which like most farming activities aims to work animal behaviour to suit human needs.

I am very much drawn to his system; not because I am a tree-hugger or have some anthropomorphic idea that the bees would be happier, but because I think I would find out more about bee behaviour and have more bees.

I'm wondering if anyone here has really gone with this method and had any success or if anyone has adapted some of Tim's ideas to a more conventional setup....particularly the one about not using a queen-excluder?

I've seen some very aggressive responses elsewhere on this forum. Whilst any response would be welcome I am particularly keen to see ones which come with a reasoned argument in either direction.

Beekeeping as a hobby is something I had never really thought about until I saw the television documentary “The Great Australian Bee Challenge” early in 2019. You can view this program on Youtube (2 episodes, each of about one hour), by searching the above title with Google.

It feels as if I am unfortunate to have only “discovered” how interesting bees and beekeeping are, so late in my life. I have been retired for a good number of years, and injured my back before that. Although I enjoy good health, my age and my back prevent me from being able to do heavy lifting. I decided early, in my quest for knowledge about beekeeping, that I did not want to use 10-frame deep boxes (because of their weight) and that I would opt for 8-frame medium boxes instead.

It seems that “bee space” is not the only aspect of bee-society which they consider important. Bees apparently consider “hive space” to also be very important, and this has been an important factor in determining an optimum size for hive boxes. As far as I understand, the Langstroth 10-frame deep box (or something slightly larger) is considered to be approximately the size that bees would choose. The fact that two 8-frame boxes together seem to provide that “ideal” space has also been significant in helping me to choose this size.

The Rose Hive method, of using only one size of box is appealing to me because it also seems to provide options for the beekeeper to satisfy the bees requirements of hive space through the various seasons of the year. I have some questions about the most effective way of commencing to use this system, for example about the timing for adding new boxes.

I am not thinking here of the discussions about whether or not to use queen excluders.

I had two hives at the end of Autumn, but somehow one hive lost its queen, and had a laying worker, and lots of drones. A friend suggested, and helped me, to combine this queenless hive with my other hive, and these bees have come through the winter, and seem to be doing well. At present they are in just one 8-frame box. In mid-August, with two weeks to go before the official start of spring, I have seen lots of bees bringing in pollen, and on several days I have seen groups of bees making their orientation flights.

I would like to do all that I can to encourage and enable them to grow in number, and would like to add a second brood box as soon as that is possible or advisable. At this stage the weather is not warm enough to open and inspect the hive. I wonder whether I should insert a new hive box (with blank foundation sheets) below the existing box, on the first sunny day that we have, which may be within the next two weeks.

What advice can any experienced beekeepers offer me, please?

 

[ericbeaumont]

Beekeeping as a hobby is something I had never really thought about until I saw the television documentary “The Great Australian Bee Challenge” early in 2019. You can view this program on Youtube (2 episodes, each of about one hour), by searching the above title with Google.

It feels as if I am unfortunate to have only “discovered” how interesting bees and beekeeping are, so late in my life. I have been retired for a good number of years, and injured my back before that. Although I enjoy good health, my age and my back prevent me from being able to do heavy lifting. I decided early, in my quest for knowledge about beekeeping, that I did not want to use 10-frame deep boxes (because of their weight) and that I would opt for 8-frame medium boxes instead.

It seems that “bee space” is not the only aspect of bee-society which they consider important. Bees apparently consider “hive space” to also be very important, and this has been an important factor in determining an optimum size for hive boxes. As far as I understand, the Langstroth 10-frame deep box (or something slightly larger) is considered to be approximately the size that bees would choose. The fact that two 8-frame boxes together seem to provide that “ideal” space has also been significant in helping me to choose this size.

The Rose Hive method, of using only one size of box is appealing to me because it also seems to provide options for the beekeeper to satisfy the bees requirements of hive space through the various seasons of the year. I have some questions about the most effective way of commencing to use this system, for example about the timing for adding new boxes.

I am not thinking here of the discussions about whether or not to use queen excluders.

I had two hives at the end of Autumn, but somehow one hive lost its queen, and had a laying worker, and lots of drones. A friend suggested, and helped me, to combine this queenless hive with my other hive, and these bees have come through the winter, and seem to be doing well. At present they are in just one 8-frame box. In mid-August, with two weeks to go before the official start of spring, I have seen lots of bees bringing in pollen, and on several days I have seen groups of bees making their orientation flights.

I would like to do all that I can to encourage and enable them to grow in number, and would like to add a second brood box as soon as that is possible or advisable. At this stage the weather is not warm enough to open and inspect the hive. I wonder whether I should insert a new hive box (with blank foundation sheets) below the existing box, on the first sunny day that we have, which may be within the next two weeks.

What advice can any experienced beekeepers offer me, please?

What I do (in an 11 frame box) is put 5 or 6 frames of mostly sealed brood in the centre of the bottom box, and directly above in the second box, the remaining 5 or 6 frames of brood. Add foundation to both boxes to fill. The bees have room for expansion but retain a compact nest, essential should a cold snap appear.

When bees have dealt with that, both boxes are rammed and the colony is really booming, put a third box of comb as Tim Rowe describes, in-between the two. If the third box is foundation I put a few frames of brood in the middle to draw bees in.

Box(es) above the nest may also be needed, depending on the flow.

 

[drex]

You could do what you propose, adding the new box on the bottom avoids the bees having to heat a lot of empty space. However why not add a box when the bees tell you they need it. In other words when the existing box is about 80% full of bees and brood. In that case you could put the new box on top, as there would be enough bees to keep it warm, and that warmth would help them draw the foundation a lot quicker. I prefer to be led by my bees rather than doing what I think is the right thing for them.

 

[ldwgs]

Having read all of the posts in the main discussion thread in the "Beehives" section I get the feeling that these hives are often considered by new beekeepers who obviously don't have the benefit of experience. Conversely, new bks. do have the benefit of being reasonably objective because of that lack of experience.

I am one of those new bks. and I have been reading and watching everything beekeeping-related on the internet for the last month. Having stumbled on Tim Rowe's video and explanations I wonder how many people are actually aware of his system in detail; because although many people are aware that he uses slightly different hive bodies, I feel that Tim is "selling" a system rather than a hive. In places there is an inference that he is re-inventing the wheel and his is a vanity project.

It appears to be about letting the bees have more freedom to do their activities in the way they would do in the wild; and after all, as many people remind me when discussing bees, bees are not domesticated creatures.

Another big feature of Tim's system is that a QE. is not used at all. I know that must lead to some messy frames of honey but according to the system, once the hive is asufficiently big stack the bees tend to store honey alone in any case.

Tim also does no feeding; I don't yet know his approach to pest and disease control.

He claims to have excellent results when measured in honey production and this is in Ireland with a cool damp climate which he says is getting damper.

His system creates a lot of bees and this seems to be one of his aims in keeping bees. He talks about creating genetic diversity by enabling a lot of reproduction and natural behaviour which encourages natural selection. I can already see that this goes counter to many of the traditional aims in beekeeping, which like most farming activities aims to work animal behaviour to suit human needs.

I am very much drawn to his system; not because I am a tree-hugger or have some anthropomorphic idea that the bees would be happier, but because I think I would find out more about bee behaviour and have more bees.

I'm wondering if anyone here has really gone with this method and had any success or if anyone has adapted some of Tim's ideas to a more conventional setup....particularly the one about not using a queen-excluder?

I've seen some very aggressive responses elsewhere on this forum. Whilst any response would be welcome I am particularly keen to see ones which come with a reasoned argument in either direction.

I have just been offered a rose hive with Bees. Have not seen one before. interested to find out more about them. I use national hives