Brood and a half

[Finman]

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Yes, I do not keep excluder. Two langstroth brood are too few. Hive needs third langstroth, or then the bees use first super as brood box. Then they store all pollen to brood boxes.

Hives need a good ventilation balance. Otherwise the queen may lay to upstairs.

However, the colony try to keep the brood area as ball shape. That is the basic. I do not encourage the bees do anything. They have their own motives to do things.

First of all, double brood needs a qood layer. And it is not easy to get such queens.

 

[masterBK]

Finman : When you said "Ball shape" did you mean as in football or as in rugby ball shape. Some of the queens in my colonies produce a vertical rugby ball shape brood nest (like when the ball is about to be kicked) in July typically occupying 17 - 18 frames (in two brood chambers).

 

[Finman]

Finman : When you said "Ball shape" did you mean as in football or as in rugby ball shape. Some of the queens in my colonies produce a vertical rugby ball shape brood nest (like when the ball is about to be kicked) in July typically occupying 17 - 18 frames (in two brood chambers).

You surely have seen, what shape they are.

 

[oliver90owner]

Finman : When you said "Ball shape" did you mean as in football or as in rugby ball shape. Some of the queens in my colonies produce a vertical rugby ball shape brood nest (like when the ball is about to be kicked) in July typically occupying 17 - 18 frames (in two brood chambers).

Then we might wonder why brood boxes have such dimensional ratios. Makes a 14 x 12 far more sensible choice for a decent shaped broodnest than a single deep National!

 

[The Poot in Somerset]

If moving to brood and a half on Nationals then which is best the half above or below the main BB?

I love it - so many opinions! Etton - the overall theme is not to move to brood and a half.
I have two on brood and a half at present (by default) and will move to double brood if the colonies are robust enough this year. Brood and a half is good for overwintering but not Summer management it seems to me.
But I'm fairly new to this malarcky.

 

[oliver90owner]

The answer to the OP’s question only really has two options - above or below.

If they don’t ask the right question(s), tough. Or don’t want/require other opinions it should be made clear, or accept the following discussions.

A brood with a super of stores on top is probably the best. It is what the bees would arrange for themselves, given the opportunity! Hence why I have run 14 x12 broods this last approx 15 years.

 

[Poly Hive]

Part of the problem with forums is a poster with a season can post x in the genuine belief that as it has worked once it is sound advice.

Another poster will say the direct opposite based on 30 years+ with hundreds of colonies. Whose advice is best? More how can the op in my hypothetical situation know?

Beware dear learner beware.

PH

 

[madasafish]

Part of the problem with forums is a poster with a season can post x in the genuine belief that as it has worked once it is sound advice.

Another poster will say the direct opposite based on 30 years+ with hundreds of colonies. Whose advice is best? More how can the op in my hypothetical situation know?

Beware dear learner beware.

PH

And what works in one microclimate does not work in another.. even 5 miles away. (Let alone Sussex vs Durham)
And what works for one strain of bees does not with another.

 

[enrico]

But everyone posts with good intentions based on their learning, bees are kept for many reasons and therefore treated differently by different keepers of them. It is difficult for a learner to cherry pick the correct advice but looking at the amount of hives in the avatar may help them chose which type of beekeeper is offering advice. Maybe there should be another column for how many years of beekeeping experience they have too!
E

 

[DanBee]

looking at the amount of hives in the avatar may help them chose which type of beekeeper is offering advice. Maybe there should be another column for how many years of beekeeping experience they have too!
E

It's known as 'hive years', but it's not a reliable metric either. Many hives for one year or few hives for many years do not make for broad exsperience; it also depends on how open the beekeeper's mind and eyes are.

I know of one 'senior' beekeeper hereabouts who is known for having done "one season 20 times over"... he has his way and that's what he does, tells others, etc.

 

[DanBee]

I love it - so many opinions! Etton - the overall theme is not to move to brood and a half.
I have two on brood and a half at present (by default) and will move to double brood if the colonies are robust enough this year. Brood and a half is good for overwintering but not Summer management it seems to me.

Beware confusing the container with the management system... not aimed at you in particular, a general comment prompted by the above

Brood and a half is pain because you have brood spread across two differently sized boxes/frames, and cannot freely rearrange as/when required. However the manipulations involving swapping boxes around, e.g. brood above stores for emptying stores frames, reversing boxes of brood and space, etc. are equally valid* regardless of whether you're on brood and a half or double brood. They were developed as box-at-a-time methods because of the limitations of brood-and-a-half; with double broods you can work at a much finer level to move stores, drawn comb, foundation, etc. frame-at-a-time to/from wherever around the brood nest area, or you can continue to do it box-at-a-time.

* usual caveats apply about climate, timing, bees, stores, space, forage, etc.

 

[Finman]

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I do not have "best order" of boxes. It depends on the history of the hive, why it has such brood boxes.

If I have now a nuc in medium box, it will have up to next summer brood in that box and I will swap it at the beginning of the summer.

Then I have pollen in super frames. I give those frames to the hives in early spring and they will become brood frames.

If I have now on the top of the hive a super with winter food, I will recycle the rest of winter sugar when I swap the langstroth brood and medium brood.

But to do all this swapping it needs to be a strong hive, and strong brooding. Otherwise bees do not stand, that I change their natural order and their heat system.

First supers I add at the beginning of June, when dandelions and apple trees are blooming.

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[Finman]

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The best order... In double brood system swapping the order is important that the combs will be evenly consumed and winter food will be recycled.

That is why it is important to change the order, what ever the frame size is.
If the combs have much pollen, the best way is, that bees eate them empty them when you give them to brood combs.

If you have super at bottom, bees will fill it with pollen.
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