Breeding Groups

[B+.]

http://www.mehilaishoitajat.fi/sicamm-2018/ is this it?

No. Sicamm is an Amm enthusiast event. I believe Hunajavelho meant a controlled breeding program like BeeBreed/Smartbees.

 

[B+.]

I have proposed the formation of a breeding group within my local association and I am hoping for a mandate from the members at our agm on 24th February.

For anyone interested to hear the result: 42 for the proposal, 12 against, quite a few abstentions but I didn't catch the figure (250% majority).

 

[For want of a better word]

Yeah, drones can't fly the few hundred yards over the Thames from Greenwich? To say nothing of the surrounding 5 mile area....
You being silly again?

Quite so... nobody stands a hope in hell of breeding a pedigree line ( as the German breeders see it) by open mating in the heavily populated South East of the UK.

Be it Milton Keynes or Isle of Dogs the area is possibly the most a cosmopolitan mix ox people and bees on the planet.

( Irony seems to go over some peoples heads methinks!)

 

[Noddy]

For anyone interested to hear the result: 42 for the proposal, 12 against, quite a few abstentions but I didn't catch the figure (250% majority).

Some good news in amongst all the white noise

 

[B+.]

Some good news in amongst all the white noise

Indeed.
The proposal followed a presentation in December by Mr Norman Carreck (Science Director of the International Bee Research Association IBRA). Paradoxically, his presentation was entitled “What future for local bees in Britain” but this wasn't your usual Amm motivated propaganda. It was actually a very well thought out and balanced discussion (maybe I should have put this is the "What you like about your association" thread). Among other things, he was very supportive of the Coloss (http://www.coloss.org/2018/01/17/st...aring-and-selection-of-apis-mellifera-queens/) testing protocols.
Although I am a committed carnica enthusiast, it prompted me to propose the formation of our own independent group based only on a rational approach to testing and comparable results to inform the breeding decision. As I said earlier, that proposal was accepted and we now move forward to the early stages of establishing the group.
I have to say that, after my experience on this forum, I was doubtful that people with their own preference on the bee they kept could come together and agree on anything. However, sanity seems to have prevailed and the members accepted that we should have objective data upon which to move forward. I wont say that I don't expect toys to be thrown out of numerous prams, but, I do believe that we should work together.

 

[For want of a better word]

Norman Carreck gave much the same presentation to the B4/ BIBBA meeting held at The Eden Project on 17th February: Sustainable Beekeeping... A future without Imports, he spoke at length about COLOSS initiative involving 95 countries in bee research. He discussed the evidence to support the existence of Native bees in Europe and the UK (Paper: Are UK Honeybees Native) and outlined the COLOSS initiative involving 95 countries in bee science research.
The question asked of 16 European University laboratories was: Could colony loss be due to keeping bees that are unsuitable for local conditions?
In this research local bee colonies were compared with two other non-local sub species, with 10 colonies of each. The principle findings of this ongoing research were that although there was no significant difference due to the site or location, there was significant difference in survival rates, with the local bees showing more robust survival rates, this may be due to the local bees having evolved and adapted to the local virus threat.
Looking towards the British Isles, Amm are the native bee in Britain and Ireland and have over 10,000 years adapted to localised climatic conditions, however within this distribution there has been an evolution of distinct localised strains with the Irish land mass having the greatest number.

I applaud any initiative that encourages bee breeding at a local level, and if there is a specific subspecies that is dominant within an area perhaps this is the sub species that is most locally adapted..... here in my area it just so happens to be Amm.

 

[B+.]

Norman Carreck gave much the same presentation to the B4/ BIBBA meeting .

Unsurprisingly, we have completely different interpretations of his presentations. We all take what we can from these things, but, my recollection was that he stuck very much to the science and didn't comment much about specific races (I found nothing controversial in his presentation to BedsBKA on 7th December). In any case, I am happy to say that BedsBKA adopted my proposal to allow the evidence to speak for itself.

 

[For want of a better word]

Unsurprisingly, we have completely different interpretations of his presentations. We all take what we can from these things, but, my recollection was that he stuck very much to the science and didn't comment much about specific races (I found nothing controversial in his presentation to BedsBKA on 7th December). In any case, I am happy to say that BedsBKA adopted my proposal to allow the evidence to speak for itself.

May all end in tears... I hope not as anything to stop this mass importation of potentially bug infested bees must be a good thing?

 

[Beefriendly]

as anything to stop this mass importation of potentially bug infested bees must be a good thing?

Yes, when your local breeding queens become gentle fecund and as productive as most imported queens then people might take some notice. Particularity if they are cheaper....
I won't be holding my breath.

 

[Swarm]

In any case, I am happy to say that BedsBKA adopted my proposal to allow the evidence to speak for itself.

So what is that supposed to mean?

 

[For want of a better word]

Yes, when your local breeding queens become gentle fecund and as productive as most imported queens then people might take some notice. Particularity if they are cheaper....
I won't be holding my breath.

You must have some very nasty bees up your way

Become part of the solution ( as B+ and his local breeding groups are) and not part of the problem!

 

[B+.]

So what is that supposed to mean?

Exactly what I've always said: you can only breed from selected stock. You have to test before you can select. In order to make a rational, informed decision you need information.

 

[For want of a better word]

Exactly what I've always said: you can only breed from selected stock. You have to test before you can select. In order to make a rational, informed decision you need information.

( for once!!)

Nos da

 

[Beefriendly]

In order to make a rational, informed decision you need information.

Exactly. The information I've gleaned over the last 20-30 years is that the local bees in my area are crap and are not worth bothering about, save kill any queens I come across in collected swarms. Imports provide me with colonies with great temperament, much more enjoyable beekeeping and honey production up by well over 1000% in comparison.
No contest.
I've no intention of peeing up a stick for the next few years trying to make negligible gains breeding mongrel bees that don't breed true just to satisfy someone's whim that we shouldn't import....

Open your eyes....I'm happy that people support local bees, just don't go around demanding that everyone has to keep your choice of bees and that other choices are "evil". They aren't and they can make your beekeeping much more enjoyable.
Respect for others choices.

 

[B+.]

Respect for others choices.

Absolutely.
My choice is to breed carnica, but, if people need to go through an exercise to reach the same conclusion, I'm happy to help.
I'm sure some people will never change their mind no matter how much evidence you give them, but, I have to try. I'm really just trying to facilitate the group coming to a rational decision. I'm not trying to force anything on anyone.
We've never conducted an exercise like this in Bedfordshire before. It will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[Beefriendly]

Become part of the solution and not part of the problem!

What problem?
The problem you and your several like minded racist Anglophiles (must be local English bees) seem determined to create with a mishmash of information any Faustian pact would be well advised to stay well clear of.
In the strange weird little worlds you appear to inhabit you seem to think the "old English bee" is some sort of demigoddess...
You have my sympathy, in general she is a modest little bee with much to bee (sic) modest about. But it's great she has her fans and I shall continue to support them because it's a good thing to do...but just not in MY apiaries.....well not any longer...my Amm's are for the chop ASAP, thanks to you.

 

[For want of a better word]

Had a pretty young thing ring our doorbell trying to give me a copy of the latest Watchtower.. or some such publication.
I politely wished her good day.......

Good day to you too Sir!

 

[SDM]

Had a pretty young thing ring our doorbell trying to give me a copy of the latest Watchtower.. or some such publication.
I politely wished her good day.......

Good day to you too Sir!

Some of my best customers now, they gave up on selling me god ages ago, but they buy honey by the bucket load.

 

[Swarm]

Absolutely.
My choice is to breed carnica, but, if people need to go through an exercise to reach the same conclusion, I'm happy to help.
I'm sure some people will never change their mind no matter how much evidence you give them, but, I have to try. I'm really just trying to facilitate the group coming to a rational decision. I'm not trying to force anything on anyone.
We've never conducted an exercise like this in Bedfordshire before. It will be interesting to see what happens.

Says it all.

 

[B+.]

Says it all.

What? I don't have the right to chhose?