Breeding Groups

[B+.]

yet to read B +'s comments he believes its his less than 0.1% of bees or of little to no value.
It's great that breeders strive to improve their stock and that some go to meticulous lengths and serious cooperation to do so, but as soon as they start saying their way is the only way of value it's obvious they're full of bsh1+
(imho)

On the contrary, I believe it is only those that are tested that have any value in a breeding programme since only they can be compared.

 

[madasafish]

Sums it up beautifully!



It's great that breeders strive to improve their stock and that some go to meticulous lengths and serious cooperation to do so, but as soon as they start saying their way is the only way of value it's obvious they're full of bsh1+
(imho)

So most of the proponents of native bees are full of bull excrement?

 

[Finman]

So most of the proponents of native bees are full of bull excrement?

All others too, which are not tested and without pedigree.

If test costs are bigger than your annual honey yield, that is not wise.

I could buy an anti varroa queen with 500€, but the whole hive is only 400€. Chemical varroa treatment is 2€ per hive.

I could never get back the price of the VSH queen.

 

[B+.]

I could never get back the price of the VSH queen.

Not if you only ever used her as a honey production queen. Her value is in the heritable performance that would be passed to her male/female progeny.

 

[Beefriendly]

Her value is in the heritable performance that would be passed to her male/female progeny.

Under open mating do her daughters still retain VSH traits?

 

[Finman]

Not if you only ever used her as a honey production queen. Her value is in the heritable performance that would be passed to her male/female progeny.

IT is not in practice and not in statistically. But hopefully yes.



.

 

[Finman]

Under open mating do her daughters still retain VSH traits?

No. IT is clear.

 

[Finman]

Perhaps, when you know, you might be more constructive in what you say?

There are things which are better not to know. IT takes last hope off.

.

 

[B+.]

There are things which are better not to know. IT takes last hope off.

.

I see. So you plan on being negative and critical about everything?
I've seen inconsistencies between what you say one minute and the next, so, I doubt it.

 

[B+.]

Under open mating do her daughters still retain VSH traits?

We've discussed this before, and you know the answer as well as I do: there are no free-lunches in this world. Traits are diluted with each successive generation they are random mated.

 

[Finman]

I see. So you plan on being negative and critical about everything?
I've seen inconsistencies between what you say one minute and the next, so, I doubt it.

Your plan, not me. British Style to put into another's mouth rubbish and then insist that it was there. Old joke.
.
You have seen what you have wanted.
.

 

[Beefriendly]

Traits are diluted with each successive generation they are random mated.

I've read about one of the American ideas for having their whole country populated with VSH bees.
Basically if you go treatment free and one (or ten) of your hive dies from varroa you import a VSH (or ten) queen(s) from a registered dealer to replace her/them and so on, until eventually over a long period of time the whole area is saturated with VSH bees. Essentially you oust the non VSH "local" bee population and continually replace with VSH stock
It is feasible, but a long term and requires beekeepers to co-operate.
On second thoughts perhaps more of a pipe-dream than a reality.

 

[Finman]

.
B+ says that Hygienic or Varroa Sensitive features are diluted in each hybrid generation.

But new researches show, the dilution is so such in first generation, that antivarroa features is practically as good as in normal bees. 10% less mites in the hive has no meaning.

10% is statistical difference but not practical. Varroa reproduces 100% in a month, and 10% means only some days late.

Read the Tasmanian raport. Hygienic feature is at its best 80%. Some stocks have 40%.
2/3 of drones must be hygienic in mating place. They have bred now bees 14 years or something
They started with 20% hygienic.

 

[Finman]

.
The most important research is from Germany. Costs were 1.3 million euros.


Researchers want to find those bees,which open brood cells in a varroa resistant hive they marked the bees which teared open the varroa cells.

Answer was 1%.

So you graft 100 larvae, and 1 queen may be sensitive to tear the cell....

 

[B+.]

.
So you graft 100 larvae, and 1 queen may be sensitive to tear the cell....

For someone with a genetics degree, you should know better than that. It doesn't work that way at all

 

[Finman]

For someone with a genetics degree, you should know better than that. It doesn't work that way at all

Hey boy!

What they taught to me in university, it was how to find such facts from the world where me and other people can trust.

And next 40 years I earned my living with fact researching. Inspecting, like one Irish man said about ne.

They did not taught, how things will be 50 years later. Heh heh.


It seems that these are so new information, that no one knows how it is inherited. That is why they arranged that expencive research.

These are not Mendel laws.

 

[Finman]

For someone with a genetics degree, you should know better than that. It doesn't work that way at all

I can read very well Englich biological text. All my book were English in university 50 y ago.

I do not need to know anything. I just read what others have done and reported.

 

[Finman]

I've read about one of the American ideas for having their whole country populated with VSH bees.
Basically if you go treatment free and one (or ten) of your hive dies from varroa you import a VSH (or ten) queen(s) from a registered dealer to replace her/them and so on, until eventually over a long period of time the whole area is saturated with VSH bees. Essentially you oust the non VSH "local" bee population and continually replace with VSH stock
It is feasible, but a long term and requires beekeepers to co-operate.
On second thoughts perhaps more of a pipe-dream than a reality.

USA is full of varroa tolerant colonies, because during 10 years 40% have died for varroa, those non tolerant colonies.

Now selection should be faster because VSH bees are everywhere, and natural selection is so strong.

But nothing can be seen in results. American bees are not better than 10 years ago. Where are those "diluted features"?

Russian bees have been bred 20 years. Typical colonies are so small, that none of them can over winter here. And so little colonies cannot forage surplus..

B, you surely understand that resistancy is not only Mendelian genes. It is much more ,such as colony size.
And what keeps those colonies small. It is varroa!
.

 

[B+.]

Hey boy!

What they taught to me in university, it was how to find such facts from the world where me and other people can trust.

And next 40 years I earned my living with fact researching. Inspecting, like one Irish man said about ne.

They did not taught, how things will be 50 years later. Heh heh.


It seems that these are so new information, that no one knows how it is inherited. That is why they arranged that expencive research.

These are not Mendel laws.

Boy?
Now I know you've lost it.
As for degrees, I have 3 for your 1 so I have learned a thing, or two, too. Do you not think others can critically analyse data too? It's not that hard.
Mendels laws are the foundation, but, things have moved on a very long way since then. My son is doing work now that my wife didn't even cover at Masters level. Things change. Don't dwell in the past.

 

[B+.]

I do not need to know anything.