Breeding for mite tolerance

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Fusion_power

Field Bee
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
774
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82
Location
Hamilton, AL U.S.A.
Hive Type
Other
Number of Hives
24
I'd like to hear from or about beekeepers who are breeding for high levels of varroa tolerance. Set the stage by stating that I have not treated for varroa mites since the fall of 2004. My bees are healthy, thriving, and producing a regular crop of honey. Is anyone else to the stage that they have 4 or more years with zero treatments for Varroa?
 
Sounds great - I think we would all love to be in that situation. However, so far only the fewest queens have this hygienic behaviour so I think you're lucky. Have you had your hives checked out by the Universities who are researching this?
 
Hi...there are a number of beekeepers who post on this forum who don't treat for varroa.....and their colonies are thriving. We are still told here that we will lose our bees if we don't treat but it is scary to stop. I expect when they see your post some will discuss the varroa situation with you.
 
Hi Fusion_power,

It would be interesting to know what your set up is and what beekeeping methods you use. Is everything you do absolutely 'standard' (if there is such a thing)... where do your approaches differ, if at all.

Did you have a lot of losses in the first couple of years and bred simply from what Darwin left behind?

Do you know if your bees are better at evicting the mites? Or are they just more robust and operate more in 'harmony' with the little buggers?

Anyway... interested in any details.
 
I found one single queen that exhibited high tolerance to mites in a swarm in 2004. In 2005, I purchased 10 queens from Dann Purvis (high levels of varroa tolerance) and used them to produce drones to mate with queens raised from the swarm queen. In 2006 and 2008, I pushed my bees to swarm heavily, all it takes is a bit of crowding of the brood nest. The result was pushing several dozen feral colonies into the surrounding area. Those feral colonies have survived and thrived such that I routinely catch a few swarms from them each year. The end result is that I can mate queens in this area with most of them expressing a very high level of varroa tolerance. I currently have 14 colonies in 4 apiaries, one here at my home, one 7 miles east on some land I own, one 4 miles southwest at a friend's place, and one 155 miles north east at my mother's home. I would have more colonies, but have been giving and selling colonies to other beekeepers to get them a start with mite tolerant genetics. One of them has 10 colonies now, another has 7, a third has 11, one passed away and his bees were sold. I have two more requests to get people started with colonies this spring so I plan on raising queens from selected breeders and producing new colonies by splitting those I currently have. I am also going to try to raise more queens to distribute to a few beekeepers who are interested in evaluating their mite tolerance.

The mite tolerant swarm queen I found in 2004 was probably mixed with a significant amount of Apis Mellifera Mellifera genetics. This is based on the traits:
1. Flying and foraging at low temps and very late in the day, specifically 4C to 7C on a sunny day just before dark.
2. Excessive stinging behavior, typical AMM, sting if you get within 20 ft of the colony.
3. Highly aggressive when the colony is manipulated, not like Africanized, just hotter than any other bees around.
4. Overwintered on less than 20 pounds of honey, foraged early, still built up faster than any other colony I had.
5. Very fast to swarm, typical of AMM, not typical of Italian or Carniolan.
6. Very good tolerance to mites which is NOT typical of AMM and tells me they were likely crossbred.

I do not do any mite counts, I don't check for varroa mauling, I don't check for VSH. My bees have such low mite counts that I can't find any mites in a colony except in mid-summer, if I search drone brood, I sometimes find one or two. Two years ago, I collected all the mites a colony dropped in 48 days. I got 15 mites. Someone recently challenged me about not checking. I just replied, after 11 years and my bees are alive, what would I check for?

What are their negative traits? They have a very strong tendency to swarm. They are sometimes excessively aggressive. I've been able to trim the aggression down so that only one colony is left that is seriously difficult to work. All of my other colonies can be worked in shirtsleeves. They winter with small clusters typically the size of a football or a bit smaller. They can under some conditions haul honey in so fast I get behind putting supers on them.

I've kept bees for 46 years and lost all my colonies to acarine in 1988, rebuilt using Buckfast queens, and lost all again in winter 1993/1994. I'm now back at the stage of beekeeping that I was at in the early 1980's when I could simply manage the bees for honey production.

Someone asked why I don't get rid of the queen in the aggressive hive. I take 100 to 150 pounds of honey per year off that colony with no work done on my part except the adding of supers in spring and removing of the honey in fall. When a goose is busy laying golden eggs, don't disturb the goose.
 
Fusion-power: Have a read of this - it may explain what is going on in your colonies - http://www.nature.com/ismej/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/ismej2015186a.html

The bees from Swindon in Wiltshire, UK had not been treated for over 10 years, which is why they were chosen for the study. Some of the paper is pretty hard going - technically, that is, but there's enough plain English for you to get the sense of what is going on.

CVB
 
I read that article a few days ago. My bees have such low mite populations that they are almost undetectable. It is possible that competive exclusion is what they are doing, but that does not explain the lack of mites.
 
Is 'tolerance' the correct term/trait? I would have thought that you'd want your bees to behave like proper little flag waving, speciesists towards the mites.
Isnt the 'success' of varroa based around the fact the bees passively tolerate them while they infiltrate colonies/bees.

If you need someone to help incite some speciesist fervour and intolerance i believe our ex prime minister, tony abbott is looking for venues on the international speakers circuit :)
 
Someone asked why I don't get rid of the queen in the aggressive hive. I take 100 to 150 pounds of honey per year off that colony with no work done on my part except the adding of supers in spring and removing of the honey in fall. When a goose is busy laying golden eggs, don't disturb the goose.

Perhaps you have scutellata genes in your bees. Mite tolerancy derives often from African bee genes. US Russian Bees have Caucasian bee race genes.

Thanks to varroa, it killed German Black Bees from Finland. Mites are are much more easier to nurse than boiling and stinging bees.

To winter in small cluster means slow spring build up and losses in early yields.

It is mad idea, that mite tolerance versus dying by mites depends on viruses. Really mad. The stupids idea what I have ever met.
.
 
Finman, they are not africanized. They behave like the old German black bees we once had in this area. Also, it was easy to select for gentle bees. I could not have done that with Africans. They are similar to any of the Apis Mellifera Mellifera that were common in Europe and England 100 years ago.

As I noted, I normally work my bees in a t-shirt with no veil. With the aggressive hive, I have to put on a veil.

Your comment re spring buildup is also incorrect. My bees build up at the proper time for the spring flow in this area. I think you remember the black bees from years ago. Did they overwinter with small colonies that built up explosively in spring?

John Kefuss did the same as I did. He selected for bees that live on their own. He did it a few years before me.
 
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I'd like to hear from or about beekeepers who are breeding for high levels of varroa tolerance. Set the stage by stating that I have not treated for varroa mites since the fall of 2004. My bees are healthy, thriving, and producing a regular crop of honey. Is anyone else to the stage that they have 4 or more years with zero treatments for Varroa?

I haven't treated since the mid-90's.
Can I suggest that you take a look at the German Arbeitsgemeinschaft Toleranzzucht (AGT) website http://www.toleranzzucht.de/home/
Several groups are working on tolerance/VSH in Europe including Arista Bee Research https://aristabeeresearch.org/
 
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Thanks B+, those links were interesting. One item I noted was a serious reluctance to do a hard test of varroa tolerance. Put a large number of colonies in an area and over the course of a year, remove all that show high infestation rates thereby leaving only resistant colonies. This method is highly effective, but has the side effect of killing a lot of susceptible colonies. With the stock they have selected so far, they could raise a few thousand queens, then with natural mating and hard selection in one year could stabilize a few hundred highly mite tolerant colonies.

Would you care to share your experiences with keeping bees sans treatments?


Here are the varroa tolerance mechanisms I am aware of.

Varroa Selective Hygiene - disrupts the reproductive cycle of the varroa mite
a. Detect infested larvae
b. Uncap infested larvae
c. Remove infested larvae
d. selection involves testing for hygienic behavior and removal of infested larvae

Allogrooming - bees grooming each other to remove mites
a. Varroa mauling - chewing and biting the mites which kills them
b. Selection involves monitoring for chewed mites on the bottom board

Breaks in brood rearing - during brood breaks, varroa cannot reproduce.
a. Heavy pollen collection - bees that collect pollen heavily are more sensitive to lack of pollen and shut down brood rearing earlier.
b. Sensitive to nectar dearth - bees that react to nectar shortage by breaking the brood cycle
c. Selection involves monitoring for bees that reduce brood rearing when pollen is unavailable

Reduced days to worker maturity - fewer days gives mites less time to reproduce
a. some worker bees mature in 19 days vs standard 21
b. using small cell foundation and timing brood emergence
c. Selection involves identifying the small percentage of colonies that mature workers in fewer days

Mite entombment - trap and kill mites in the cell
a. pupating larvae kill mites by trapping them between the cocoon and cell base
b. selection involves measuring and selecting for number of entombed mites
 
Finman, they are not africanized. They behave like the old German black bees we once had in this area. Also, it was easy to select for gentle bees. I could not have done that with Africans. They are similar to any of the Apis Mellifera Mellifera that were common in Europe and England 100 years ago.

As I noted, I normally work my bees in a t-shirt with no veil. With the aggressive hive, I have to put on a veil.

Your comment re spring buildup is also incorrect. My bees build up at the proper time for the spring flow in this area. I me.

My comment is not incorrect. I have 53 years experience in beekeeping. And a strong build up can happen only in strong hives. I can accelerate spring 3 with pollen patty and electrict heating, but only in big hives.

Best help to small colonies is when you give emerging brood frames from big hives. But such colonies have lack of foragers, but they can fill one box with brood. They are not able to get early yield.
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If small colony oppupy 6 frames, it cannot nurse 10 brood frames. Pure mathematics.

When I read your story, you have succeedd better than Russian Bee breeders. They have still mites in hives and mites kill Russian Bee colonies.
Well done.
.
 
Remember @Fusion_power and others. The burden of the Nature study is that the best way to breed towards varroa cohabitation is to breed VIRUSES or MITES, not bees.

ADD: I take that back: I had missed a key post. Seems like you're really onto something in terms of bee behaviour. Good luck.
 
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Today you listed brood breaks and in earlier post said they were very swarmy. Surely the brood break from swarming is a major factor in limiting Varroa build up. Also Am.m tends to take a long brood break in winter.
 
Today you listed brood breaks and in earlier post said they were very swarmy. Surely the brood break from swarming is a major factor in limiting Varroa build up. Also Am.m tends to take a long brood break in winter.

Those things do not help in varroa issue.
Like in Finland varroa killed all Black MM in few years.

Fusion lives in Hamilton Alabama. The weather there is in this week day temp 17C and at night near zero.

.
 
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Fusion-power: Have a read of this - it may explain what is going on in your colonies - http://www.nature.com/ismej/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/ismej2015186a.html

The bees from Swindon in Wiltshire, UK had not been treated for over 10 years, which is why they were chosen for the study. Some of the paper is pretty hard going - technically, that is, but there's enough plain English for you to get the sense of what is going on.

CVB

Hi Charlie, I have not read this paper, but I spoke to the man and his researcher. She did not know his winter losses and he did not want to disclose them. Why?
 
One item I noted was a serious reluctance to do a hard test of varroa tolerance. Put a large number of colonies in an area and over the course of a year, remove all that show high infestation rates thereby leaving only resistant colonies. This method is highly effective, but has the side effect of killing a lot of susceptible colonies. With the stock they have selected so far, they could raise a few thousand queens, then with natural mating and hard selection in one year could stabilize a few hundred highly mite tolerant colonies.

Would you care to share your experiences with keeping bees sans treatments?

Not reluctance. If you read the AGT protocols (http://www.toleranzzucht.de/zuchtprogramm/methodenhandbuch/) you will see that it is part of the pre-selection process. Only those queens which perform well against a range of characteristics qualify for the test.
BeeBreed/AGT doesn't only select for a single characteristic the way that you seem to be doing (although there is a heavy weighting in favour of varroa tolerance) so we don't get the aggressive lines that you mentioned. Using Island mating/Instrumental Insemination, many thousands of queens are raised each year and tested by members of the group. The best are considered as potential queen/drone mothers in the following years but there are so many sister groups within the programme that inbreeding can be avoided. The SMARTBEES project here in the UK also uses BeeBreed/AGT protocols as their base (http://www.toleranzzucht.de/home/ne...e-der-europaweiten-smartbees-zuchtinitiative/).
As some people on this forum know, I work with Carniolan bees as part of the BeeBreed programme under the supervision of Prof E.W. Brascamp who is a geneticist at the university of Wageningen (https://www.wageningenur.nl/en/Persons/prof.dr.ir.-EW-Pim-Brascamp.htm) in The Netherlands.
 
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