Blue Mould

[Cedar]

Finally got the oxalic acid in the hive today, but, no 3 has mould in the roof. On top of the crown board mostly. The inside of the roof is very damp. The National hive is made up of OMF with varroa boards in for the last couple of weeks, 2 brood boxes, crown board and roof which has insulation between the roof and tin, and ventilation holes.

Hive 4, set up the same as Hive 3 is showing signs of heading the same way. These 2 hives are protected with linseed oil where as my Dads hives currently staying in our apiary are both painted and he has cut the varroa boards too narrow so don't sit in the grooves but on the bottom.

Any thoughts on this please. We have now put matchsticks in to lift the lid a touch. Is their anything else we can do?

Thanks, Cedar

 

[oliver90owner]

Any insulation directly on the crownboard?

 

[Anduril]

Blue mould grows on untreated wood.
If the insulation is resting on the crownboard then it could be condensation producing the mould. Otherwise rain is getting into the roof. Roof would need a better waterproof seal. If you have spare crownboard and roof change them. The matchsticks will help with the ventilation to dry it out.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I would change the crown board, put insulation directly on top of it and remove the matchsticks. The poor bees will have a howling gale blowing through them if you leave the crown board lifted.
I don't think the position of the inserts under the floors has anything to do with your damp.Maybe your roof is leaking as well?

 

[Skyhook]

When I started fettling hives, I insulated the roof- then realised there was little point. Think of your house. The roof space should be well ventilated, eg with soffit vents, and you should have thick insulation over the ceilings. The warmth is kept where it should be, there should be little problem with condensation on the ceilings as they are warm. Any moisture vapour that makes it through should be whipped away by the fresh air in the roof space.

Take the inspection trays out, take the matchsticks out, and put insulation directly on the crownboard- any condensation will then take place at the sides and bottom of the hive, which are cooler, and drip harlessly through the OMF. If the roof vents are clear, they will cope with any small amounts of damp in the roof space, but they're unlikely to cope with all the moisture from the bees.

.

 

[Midland Beek]

I would have done the same matchstick thing. There are insulation materials out there that match the same depth as the recess in your rooves, and these can ward off condensation.

 

[Cedar]

hi guys, Thanks for your replies, there is no insulation directly above the crown board. The hives are new as of last year so shouldnt be leaking, and i put the matchsticks on the crownboard not under it. I have some spare insulation i can put between the CB and roof. Thanks, Cedar

 

[drstitson]

cedar - not read any posts re ventilation on this forum before winter prep?

you should have:

OMF (tray out except when monitoring drop)
boxes (NO QEs)
Crownboard (solid)
insulation (at least 50mm) directly on top, in contact with crownboard (ie under roof)
Roof

AND FINALLY - NO MATCHSTICKS.

 

[Finman]

.
Insulation has no use if you have matchsticks.

 

[tonybloke]

cedar - not read any posts re ventilation on this forum before winter prep?
you should have:
OMF (tray out except when monitoring drop)
boxes (NO QEs)
Crownboard (solid)
insulation (at least 50mm) directly on top, in contact with crownboard (ie under roof)
Roof
AND FINALLY - NO MATCHSTICKS.

really? none of my colonies are kept like that.

 

[oliver90owner]

Perhaps DrS should have said 'ideally with OMFs'. I still basically agree with him.

I reckon the 'John Harding' floors have enough ventilation, so a full OMF is overkill, but of no great problem. Just that the colony will use a tad more stores.

That seems to be why so many are feeding? A kilo or two of honey, over the winter, is a considerable cost saving. It pays for that insulation in very short time. If one were to have several hundred hives, that saving might pay for a winter break!

Some, of course use solid floors and ideally they should be warmer (one of the reaons I always overwintered on a brood and a super prior to adopting the extra-deep format with OMFs was to allow the cluster plenty of space well away from the coldest area at the bottom). I am wondering how they arrive at the miimum ventilation needed to maintain a dry environment, while not wasting energy (stores).

RAB

 

[Cedar]

DrS
I do read the forum, but like any good forum their is usually more than 1 suggested solution to any problem. . I have only had the varroa board in to check the drop so I have a benchmark for now that the OA has been administered.
Also I put the Matchsticks in as a temporary measure to help the drying out process. C

 

[Andy Duff]

cedar - not read any posts re ventilation on this forum before winter prep?

you should have:

OMF (tray out except when monitoring drop)
boxes (NO QEs)
Crownboard (solid)
insulation (at least 50mm) directly on top, in contact with crownboard (ie under roof)
Roof

AND FINALLY - NO MATCHSTICKS.

 

[tonybloke]

Originally Posted by drstitson View Post
cedar - not read any posts re ventilation on this forum before winter prep?

you should have:

OMF (tray out except when monitoring drop)
boxes (NO QEs)
Crownboard (solid)
insulation (at least 50mm) directly on top, in contact with crownboard (ie under roof)
Roof

AND FINALLY - NO MATCHSTICKS.

why ?

there's still a lot of folk who use solid floors

 

[Andy Duff]

Originally Posted by drstitson View Post
cedar - not read any posts re ventilation on this forum before winter prep?

you should have:

OMF (tray out except when monitoring drop)
boxes (NO QEs)
Crownboard (solid)
insulation (at least 50mm) directly on top, in contact with crownboard (ie under roof)
Roof

AND FINALLY - NO MATCHSTICKS.


why ?

there's still a lot of folk who use solid floors

Why?

Omf 20 quid, new colony 100 quid plus.
ditto for OA treatment, mouse guards, top insulation, fondant etc etc etc.

 

[tonybloke]

Why?

Omf 20 quid, new colony 100 quid plus.
ditto for OA treatment, mouse guards, top insulation, fondant etc etc etc.

why spend 20 quid on an omf when the solid floors are perfectly fine for my bees?

 

[Nic Rhodes]

why spend 20 quid on an omf when the solid floors are perfectly fine for my bees?

what didn't you like about OMFs?

 

[Hivemaker.]

why spend 20 quid on an omf when the solid floors are perfectly fine for my bees?

I agree, my favourite floors,and have no intention of changing,just a few mesh floors, for ease of testing effectiveness of treatments,and don't use oxalic acid either,not needed.

 

[tonybloke]

what didn't you like about OMFs?

there's no 'didn't like' option, I started with solid floors, never tried omf's.
I've handled bees being kept on an omf, and when you take off the crownboard, there's a hell of an updraught through the hive

 

[BBG]

Any thoughts on this please. We have now put matchsticks in to lift the lid a touch. Is their anything else we can do?

Thanks, Cedar

Lose the matchsticks - must be like sleeping in a tunnel constant (cold) draught inside.

Polystyrene would be the best bet, if not take trusted advice on here but most use polystyrene to insulate anyway.


Tonybloke

why spend 20 quid on an omf when the solid floors are perfectly fine for my bees?

Best for your bees as shown by MAFF pilot with numerous beekeepers taking part in the earlly 90s and now 10s of 000s in practice.

MAFF trial results too

There isn't a draught or condensation when the lid is on - can't say I've ever felt the draught - maybe your hives are in poor position.


Matchsticks are way archaic, starting to show your age!