Blenheim DNA Results

[Ian123]

So it must be about a year since these test have been taken. Have any heard or seen any results posted. One can only hope Miss Marple gets her results faster

 

[Finman]

You are trying again to spoil a good story.
Two professors have confirmed it.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Maybe the confidentiality clause is still in place ?

 

[Finman]

The story: no one knew

9

 

[Ian123]

Maybe the confidentiality clause is still in place ?

Bit odd don’t you think, when you pay a company to do some tests for you isn’t it you the customer that decides what’s confidential….Maybe I’m just old fashioned

 

[JamezF]

Bit odd don’t you think, when you pay a company to do some tests for you isn’t it you the customer that decides what’s confidential….Maybe I’m just old fashioned

On the other hand, if the Blenheim estate is paying for the test and they want control of the PR once the results are in, third parties who wish to remain involved may be required to sign one. Or if someone who is hoping to publish an academic paper is involved and wants to be first with the details, I guess.

I'd not be surprised if in the past people haven't used the claimed existence of a confidentiality clause to bury bad news however.

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Maybe the confidentiality clause is still in place ?

a very convenient excuse

 

[roche]

I suspect it is a state secret. All to do with Churchill. Probably won't know for another 50 years at least. Bees and the enigma project. The waggle dance was used in 1943 as part of a coding system...

 

[jeff33]

I have always wondered why we can't get F0s Amm or native black bees whereas Carnica and buckfast are widely available. Is it purely based on demand or because you can't get true Amms or native bees for controlled selected breeding?

 

[Ian123]

I have always wondered why we can't get F0s Amm or native black bees whereas Carnica and buckfast are widely available. Is it purely based on demand or because you can't get true Amms or native bees for controlled selected breeding?

You can but there harder to get hold of, very very few in the UK can claim anything other than native type. Largely down to lack of isolated mating sites and pro breeders focusing on other races or strains. Effectively they are mongrel types and the offspring vary so commercial produces don’t get the consistency. There are black bee breeders in Europe who do produce F0 queens and some have been known to import to breed native bees here there was also a supplier in Greece but I think they’ve stopped due to lack of demand. There was 1 gentleman in the UK who I had hopes could produce a decent black bee. However that’s no longer an option, his opinion on the available breeding stock was poor. His thinking on AMM was that there’s a good bee there but little work/selection had been done to find it, unlike other races and strains.

 

[jeff33]

Pretty much what I thought, thanks Ian. Shame really for those putting in all the effort in trying to achieve consistency. There is a group down Cornwall if I recall, John in Ireland, and maybe one in Anglesey? Realistically what we can hope for are locally adapted bees. We could have potential here on the northern tip of Gower but it would take a huge concerted effort to get everyone on board and reach anyone who fancies buying bees as a new hobby.

 

[Apiarist]

I have always wondered why we can't get F0s Amm or native black bees whereas Carnica and buckfast are widely available. Is it purely based on demand or because you can't get true Amms or native bees for controlled selected breeding?

Who says you can't, a randomly selected bee here in Ireland has a 98% chance of being Amm, from memory the bees on the eastern 3 miles of the Isle of Laeso (it's 12 miles long) give a 99% DNA result; there's research in Poland and in Ireland that concluded that Amm only mate with Amm! But carnica or Buckfast mate with any bee.

 

[Mint Bee]

anyway back to OP. If it looks like BS and smells like BS, in the balance of probability it is BS

If there was significant positive results they would be shouting about it

 

[Mint Bee]

Who says you can't, a randomly selected bee here in Ireland has a 98% chance of being Amm, from memory the bees on the eastern 3 miles of the Isle of Laeso (it's 12 miles long) give a 99% DNA result; there's research in Poland and in Ireland that concluded that Amm only mate with Amm! But carnica or Buckfast mate with any bee.

can you support this with any data? The 98 and 99% comments. Ta

 

[jeff33]

Who says you can't, a randomly selected bee here in Ireland has a 98% chance of being Amm, from memory the bees on the eastern 3 miles of the Isle of Laeso (it's 12 miles long) give a 99% DNA result; there's research in Poland and in Ireland that concluded that Amm only mate with Amm! But carnica or Buckfast mate with any bee.

If they are available they must be for a selected few. I have mentioned Ireland and John as I know a lot of work is going on down there and most beeks are involved, unlike mainland UK.

I have had F1s from Ireland but never got anything reliable with F2s, perhaps I should simply use them as sire. You could argue reliability with F2s is the same with other mainstream strains though.

Interested in the research around mating, do you have any links please?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Who says you can't, a randomly selected bee here in Ireland has a 98% chance of being Amm, from memory the bees on the eastern 3 miles of the Isle of Laeso (it's 12 miles long) give a 99% DNA result; there's research in Poland and in Ireland that concluded that Amm only mate with Amm! But carnica or Buckfast mate with any bee.

Does that mean keeping Carnica/Buckfast in NI has no effect on the indigenous population?

 

[jeff33]

Does that mean keeping Carnica/Buckfast in NI has no effect on the indigenous population?

Or there is lots of culling taking place.

 

[Brian Bush]

But carnica or Buckfast mate with any bee.

I think this is a little exaggeration. I was reading yesterday an article in the March edition of the American Bee Culture that studies of DCA are showing that AMC drones tend to be flying much higher than AML drones. Amc at the top of the column and AML at the bottom. Where Buckfasts come in this I ma unaware and maybe they do mate with anything. There is no mention of where AMM are in the column.
I have also been searching for an article, read some time ago, which if I recall correctly, found that in a mixed subspecies area AMC queens had mated predominanyly with AMC drones.
The "fly in the oinment" here, as always is the Buckfast hybrid as it has traits from so many differing sub-species.