Blank foundation

[Dishmop]

Yet another idea for starter strips ...

I came across a site where a guy had been using strips cut from drinks cartons - and very successfully too. This is an example showing how well his bees took to this method. (in most of the photographs on his site, the carton strip is completely covered in comb):

But when I tried it - this is typical of what resulted. My girl hated this idea, and refused to draw comb over the strip:

So - it's back to using wax again ...

LJ

Given the time and the need, they will fill the whole frame...
I had one at that stage in my obs hive for weeks....then at the beginning of September after crap few weeks, they suddenly went into overdrive because they needed somewhere to put what they were bringing in.

 

[itma]

I used to make all of my own foundation with a Herring foundation press many years ago, easy once you get the knack of it, i even knew the inventor of the press.

There is some info here if you have not already seen it...http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/herring.html

If you want to see how to make plain wax sheets without vertical dipping (which requires a LOT of wax to initially prime the tank) - then checkout this FatBeeMan video. The first few minutes show just how easy it is ... with a bit of practice, no doubt.
…
LJ

Many thanks, and to MC as well..
It looks like horizontal dipping might be a better way to go than the 'casting tray' I had been thinking of. Now, to find that electric "turkey roaster" … (though I do have a couple of ideas on UK substitutes.)

I'm only thinking of making my own shallow, thin, unwired (cut comb) foundation - at least to start with!
However, lacking a mangle (eBay prices are astounding), I'm hoping that, for thin foundation, a very serious rolling pin will be adequate for doing the pressing. I can see that the warm water holding bath will also be important.
The pizza cutter was earmarked long ago!

 

[REDWOOD]

I made a foundation press earlier this year, it did work but the faffing about was unbelievable. If I had access to a foundation roller then I would go into production

 

[Little John]

I'm hoping that, for thin foundation, a very serious rolling pin will be adequate for doing the pressing. I can see that the warm water holding bath will also be important.
The pizza cutter was earmarked long ago!

Forgot to mention - apart from the rolling pin being used for the 'pressing' process - if you take a sheet out of the warm water and give it the rolling-pin treatment on a flat work-surface, it will lose it's brittleness and becomes fairly flexible. Something to do with aligning the otherwise crystalline molecular structure - exactly the same thing happens when hot-rolling cast bronze during cymbal manufacture.

LJ

 

[Itchy]

Thanks all. What release agent can be used as per Dave Cushmans page?

 

[Madge]

Thanks all. What release agent can be used as per Dave Cushmans page?

Itchy, a plywood mould only needs a thorough soak. I used three moulds on my last foundation-making session: one taken from the water and ready to have wax poured into it; another with wax and waiting for the wax to set; and the third in the water soaking.

If you're asking about a foundation press or rubber matrix, then you can use a silicone spray or, I think, some washing-up liquid (I haven't used it - so not sure about that).

Kitta

 

[Madge]

PS: Itchy, I see you're probably referring to this sentence under "Dipping Boards" on the DC site:

... outer water bath, containing release agent rather than water ...

I don't think you need a release agent in the water tank, but if you want it, I'm sure a bit of washing-up liquid would be fine.

Kitta

 

[Hivemaker.]

If I had access to a foundation roller then I would go into production

That is way way faster, just a bit more expensive to set up, but well worth it if a lot of foundation is needed.

Thanks all. What release agent can be used as per Dave Cushmans page?

Soapy water can be used, or there is a commercial product available from Germany, but it is not cheap time the delivery costs are taken into account.

 

[mbc]

I used to make all of my own foundation with a Herring foundation press many years ago, easy once you get the knack

This is how I currently make all my foundation. A rolling pin would be inadequate imo, you need a lot of pressue, I use a mangle, and squeeze the sheets through while they're still warm and pliable, a wipe on the plates with a damp j cloth helps the sheets release. I find it takes a bit of practice before getting some good sheets but very satisfying once you start churning them out. I reckon to get ~12/hour, slow but nice to think the bees are getting uncontaminated wax foundation, I haven't used 'hard' chemicals for over a decade.

 

[Hivemaker.]

This is how I currently make all my foundation. A rolling pin would be inadequate imo, you need a lot of pressue, I use a mangle, and squeeze the sheets through while they're still warm and pliable,

Yep, i agree 100% about the pressure needed, i always used a mangle as well, (still have it here and a couple of the Herring formers) also good that the foundation can be made to whatever thickness you want, very thin if needed, used to spend some time just making the sheets of wax, then maybe a few days later put them all in a tub of warm soapy water and spend an evening embossing them and cutting to size, good quality a very satisfying.

 

[itma]

I'm under no illusion as to requiring significant pressure.
I've had a 'followed' search on eBay for months for a mangle - but they seem to be fashionable garden ornaments these days (either that or they have some illegal use that I haven't twigged.) Anyway, people seem to expect loadsamoney for them.

Hence, I'll be happy to start with thin (more easily rolled) foundation and already have a heavy duty rolling pin of this general type http://www.lakeland.co.uk/15821/Lak..._id=SstKiEo-KSYAAHu5Mg4AAAAA:20141128235520:s which can apply much more pressure than a simple wooden 'pin'.

 

[Madge]

I used to make all of my own foundation with a Herring foundation press many years ago, easy once you get the knack of it, i even knew the inventor of the press. ...

This is how I currently make all my foundation. ... I use a mangle, and squeeze the sheets through ... I reckon to get ~12/hour ...

Is the 'Herring press' similar to the silicone foundation press sold by bee suppliers?

I borrowed one from the association, but gave up after having made only one sheet. I think the one I borrowed was a much heavier version than the ones they sell now - so that might have been the problem.

What I did was to pour wax onto the press, tipped off excess wax, then close the lid until the wax had set, and then remove the wax. However, from what you're writing, MBC, it sounds as though you've first created a wax sheet and then imprinted that sheet with a Herring Press. Is that right?

Kitta

 

[Hivemaker.]

Is the 'Herring press' similar to the silicone foundation press sold by bee suppliers?

No, the Herring press just consists of a pair of plastic formers, like two pages of a book, the pre made plain wax sheet is then placed between these two formers, and then passed through a pair of rollers to emboss the pattern.

 

[Madge]

Thanks Hivemaker, I now understand - like the 'Foundation Matrix' on the Thornes website.

 

[Hivemaker.]

..... Foundation rolling machine working well and first batch of foundation made for 2015 Season, 3,300 sheets, a combination of National deep and shallow, need to make a lot more in the next couple of weeks, including some thin stuff for the heather in August.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Good stuff......I can even smell it

 

[REDWOOD]

Good stuff......I can even smell it

I know, I was tempted to ask if he would like to sell me some but probably only with bees on them

 

[mbc]

..... Foundation rolling machine working well and first batch of foundation made for 2015 Season, 3,300 sheets, a combination of National deep and shallow, need to make a lot more in the next couple of weeks, including some thin stuff for the heather in August.

Good work Hivemaker, puts my rayburn top operation to shame!

 

[Erichalfbee]

I know, I was tempted to ask if he would like to sell me some but probably only with bees on them

I could do with some for cut comb......shall we both ask him?

 

[BeeBeeKa]

i always used a mangle as well, (still have it here and a couple of the Herring formers)

..... Foundation rolling machine working well and first batch of foundation made for 2015 Season, 3,300 sheets

Wow! I wonder how long has it taken to move from Herring formers to Foundation rolling machine? Some beeks in my association state they invest in beekeeping more money than they get from it… It`s definitely not yours scenario, my friend… And won’t be mine, I hope