Blank foundation

[Itchy]

Unprinted foundation. Any sources?

 

[REDWOOD]

Why ?

 

[enrico]

Exactly.....
I guess it would be wax sheets rather than foundation!
'Nothing' would be better than an unprinted wax sheet!
E

 

[Itchy]

Experiment really. I don't want to use ordinary foundation as starter strips or full frame foundation as I think they should do their own thing regarding cell size.
Last spring I had them do their own thing on very short starter strips, and most rapidly went skewiff. Don't have time to correct them all, so want to guide them with more depth of starter.

 

[Tom Bick]

Use standard foundation and rub a piece of wood across the foundation that soon flattens the embossed foundation. I have found a starter strip of approx 25mm is enough to keep them straight.

 

[Itchy]

Thanks Tom

 

[Tom Bick]

Thanks Tom

No problem

 

[Hivemaker.]

Unprinted foundation. Any sources?

How many sheets do you require... very easy to make your own though.

 

[Madge]

Experiment really. I don't want to use ordinary foundation as starter strips or full frame foundation as I think they should do their own thing regarding cell size.
...

Is it that you think the cell imprints on a starter strip will inhibit the bees from 'doing their own thing'? If so, that's not my experience. They will draw out the rest to their own liking.

 

[Little John]

Exactly.....
I guess it would be wax sheets rather than foundation!
'Nothing' would be better than an unprinted wax sheet!
E

Not so, apparently ...
https://web.archive.org/web/2013012...ment.org/uploads/Low cost Foundation _21_.pdf

LJ

 

[Itchy]

How many sheets do you require... very easy to make your own though.

Don't require that many (100 approx) at this stage. Is there an easy way to make them?

 

[Tom Bick]

Don't require that many (100 approx) at this stage. Is there an easy way to make them?

100 sheets for me that will be about a thousand frames. Obviously it all depends how deep you want to cut the sheets.
Another tip if the bees were not building straight is give them a drawn frame or two as a starting point.
Also it's a bit out there and not an exact science as the bees sometimes prove this theory wrong but I have had some signed of improved comb building if you a line the direction of the frames north south apparently they prefer this. Like I say not an exact science as we sometimes see very artistic natural comb but may be worth an experiment or two

 

[Madge]

Don't require that many (100 approx) at this stage. Is there an easy way to make them?

Yes, you can cast them or dip a strip of wood or glass in molten wax. The foundation produced like this will be brittle and prone to cracking and breaking.

The easiest way to get your strips is to cut up commercially produced foundation. As I've said before, the bees will still 'do their own thing' (your words). The only reason for not using commercial foundation is if you're worried that commercial foundation contains impurities, or you don't want to pay for it because you have enough wax of your own.

To cast foundation: Make a mould by surrounding a a piece of plywood (slightly bigger than what you need for your strip) with a small rim made from strips of wood. Leave an opening in a corner to pour off excess wax. Thoroughly soak your mould, then pour in molten wax and tip off excess. Wait for wax to set (it changes colour and starts to lift at the edges). Peel off. If you have two or three moulds going then that will speed things up.

You'll need more wax for the dipping technique. A strip of wood or glass is dipped into wax and the rapidly cooled in cool water. I've never used this method before.

Kitta

 

[Little John]

Experiment really. I don't want to use ordinary foundation as starter strips or full frame foundation as I think they should do their own thing regarding cell size.
Last spring I had them do their own thing on very short starter strips, and most rapidly went skewiff. Don't have time to correct them all, so want to guide them with more depth of starter.

That's one way.

The other way is to use a short starter strip and chequer-board that frame between two existing straight combs. Once that comb has been drawn straight, it too can become a 'reference comb' for new combs to be drawn against, and once you have a few straight foundationless combs, the girls will continue to oblige by drawing more straight combs next to those.

A rather neat tip I picked up to create starter strips is: save any old bits of comb you cut away during your normal operations - drone comb, whatever - and cut these into strips (say) 2" wide. Then press the top 3/8" - 1/2" between two pieces of wood to flatten the comb back to the mid-rib. Insert this midrib into the frame top-bar groove, and run a little molten wax into the groove to hold it there. The girls will do the rest.

In the past I have used strips cut from old combs that I was about to condemn and render-down - that works great too, and the amount of 'grot' that is carried-over to the new comb is tiny.

LJ

 

[itma]

…
To cast foundation: Make a mould by surrounding a a piece of plywood (slightly bigger than what you need for your strip) with a small rim made from strips of wood. Leave an opening in a corner to pour off excess wax. Thoroughly soak your mould, then pour in molten wax and tip off excess. Wait for wax to set (it changes colour and starts to lift at the edges). Peel off. If you have two or three moulds going then that will speed things up.
…

Interested in trying this. (I've actually acquired some 'Herring-type' plastic embossing plates for making the patterning.)

I'm expecting that one has to pay attention to the levelling of the mould (and give it a lip at the pour-off point?) to get a controlled, even thickness of wax.
Or does the chilling of the water-soaked mould produce a fast, even and thin 'setting' of a skin of wax?

I am very interested in learning ANY more tips about this process from those who have already 'been there' - before I start to make my own mess!

 

[Hivemaker.]

I am very interested in learning ANY more tips about this process from those who have already 'been there' - before I start to make my own mess!

I used to make all of my own foundation with a Herring foundation press many years ago, easy once you get the knack of it, i even knew the inventor of the press.

There is some info here if you have not already seen it...http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/herring.html

 

[Little John]

Yet another idea for starter strips ...

I came across a site where a guy had been using strips cut from drinks cartons - and very successfully too. This is an example showing how well his bees took to this method. (in most of the photographs on his site, the carton strip is completely covered in comb):

But when I tried it - this is typical of what resulted. My girl hated this idea, and refused to draw comb over the strip:

So - it's back to using wax again ...

LJ

 

[Madge]

... I'm expecting that one has to pay attention to the levelling of the mould (and give it a lip at the pour-off point?) to get a controlled, even thickness of wax.
Or does the chilling of the water-soaked mould produce a fast, even and thin 'setting' of a skin of wax? ...

... There is some info here if you have not already seen it...http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/herring.html

There's an image of a plywood mould on the Cushman site Hivemaker pointed to.

The edge of the mould does not control the thickness or evenness. It's how much you've poured out, and how you've controlled that. I found it quite difficult. There are often some bits thicker than others, and the edges need trimming.

You can see some of my efforts here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/90285495@N08/sets/72157638791265055/. My pouring spout was in the middle of the frame but I think it would be better at a corner as in DC's illustration.

Kitta

 

[Little John]

If you want to see how to make plain wax sheets without vertical dipping (which requires a LOT of wax to initially prime the tank) - then checkout this FatBeeMan video. The first few minutes show just how easy it is ... with a bit of practice, no doubt.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lU3C4f2Xfc"]MAKING WAX=FOUNDATION=CHEAP - YouTube[/ame]

LJ

 

[drex]

In my top bar hives it does not seem to matter what they start with. In one I just run molten wax into a straight groove. In another , on the underside Of top bar I have an triangular shaped wooden strip, the edge of which I coat in wax. In another, the strip of wood, but not coated in wax. The bees do not take much notice at all.

The most important thing is to have the new bar flanked by two already straight drawn combs. Even then, occasionally, they will cross bar between frames.