Bee Stings - Bad reactions

[m1kehogg]

Some excellent debate on this thread; it has helped me a great deal to determine the way forward; I have learned:-
-that anaphylaxis is serious & can be triggered by pretty much anything
-that my reactions were 'normal' (normal spanning a huge range)
-that reactions to bee stings vary by individual, by bee colony, by part of body stung & can differ significantly over time (get better 'body tolerating?' or get worse)
-that proper precautions should be taken - full suit, gloves and wellies - and antihistamines to hand
-that there is a huge amount of passion around the subject of beekeeping
and
-that with beekeeping there is rarely a definitive answer to any question

Thanks all

 

[Karol]

"after a doctors visit resulting in Steroids and Antihistamines"

unnecessary IMHO.

Just responding to this post - no disrespect intended but I construed your comment as you saying that antihistamines were unnecessary?

 

[BeeJayBee]

I was stung last week and had some tongue tingling and palm itching, neither of which bodes well for the future, but mostly when I've had stings, it was my fault.

Get Back to your doctor now that sounds bad. better to get it sorted now than end up in A&E crash department.

Tongue tingling and palm itching, if soon after the sting, is not a normal reaction and should be checked out, just in case.

-that reactions to bee stings vary by individual, by bee colony, by part of body stung & can differ significantly over time (get better 'body tolerating?' or get worse)
-that proper precautions should be taken - full suit, gloves and wellies - and antihistamines to hand

Even with all the right gear, and washing gloves etc between colonies, it is possible for a sting to go bad.

I've, twice, had to have antibiotics after being stung through a glove and directly into a vein during an inspection. The sting must have pushed something on the outside of the glove directly into the bloodstream. Red tracks up the arm are not a good sign and do need antibiotics - but are not a symptom of anaphylaxis.

I feel there is an attempt, whether deliberate or not, to trivialise anaphylaxis by associating it with minor/localised reactions. It isn't. It is a systemic reaction. It is very serious ...

I don't think so, I think people are just trying to find out the difference and to know what is a normal reaction to a bee sting. Somebody who's never been stung and whose face swells up like a watermelon is naturally worried. If nothing else it's reassuring to know they won't look like that for ever.

Anaphylaxis is serious, but it is also something few of us will experience or witness because it is a rare reaction. We all know it can be catastrophic - hence the concern, the explanations, and the descriptions.

 

[MartinL]

Luckily, I do not have anaphylaxis, so bee stings are not life threatening, that said they hurt and a react with severe swelling and cell death. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ?

Yes, that's what is supposed to happen.
Effectively the venom "does what is says on the tin"!


Unnecessary use of antibiotics is fast negating their effective use and likely to put us back 100 years regarding everyday infections!

 

[RosieMc]

I shall be starting my honey bee sting desensitisation course shortly following a severe re-action last year when I got stung on the head. I am in my sixth year of beekeeping and have had several stings. The previous stings have resulted in variations between the usually swelling to having to go on anti-biotics (due to cellutitus), plus a course of anti-histamines. Sting re-actions have gradually got worse over the years and I have had to an arm in a sling for a week three years ago, then crutches two years ago when I was stung on the foot

I have now been for my first consultation where I had a skin prick test for various allergies plus bee and wasp venom and was selected as a candidate for the course. The immunology team teach you what to do should you have a re-action to a sting -

Swallow one antihistamine immediately
Take another antihistamine, but try to break this up and place under the tongue so that the drug gets into your blood stream quicker.


Take these with you plus a mobile phone, when you visit your bees.

The immunology team will teach you what to do next including the use of an epipen. After administration it is important to dial 999 immediately and take the used epipen with you.

Going on the course involves a lot of commitment by going for desensitisation every week for 12 weeks, then once a month for several months. You can't miss a week, otherwise you have to start the course all over again

The thought of having to use the epipen first time terrifies me, but I know that if it is needed, it will have to be done. I am very fortunate that I do not live far from one of the desensitisation centres as they are few and far between

 

[For want of a better word]

I shall be starting my honey bee sting desensitisation course shortly following a severe re-action last year when I got stung on the head. I am in my sixth year of beekeeping and have had several stings. The previous stings have resulted in variations between the usually swelling to having to go on anti-biotics (due to cellutitus), plus a course of anti-histamines. Sting re-actions have gradually got worse over the years and I have had to an arm in a sling for a week three years ago, then crutches two years ago when I was stung on the foot

I have now been for my first consultation where I had a skin prick test for various allergies plus bee and wasp venom and was selected as a candidate for the course. The immunology team teach you what to do should you have a re-action to a sting -

Swallow one antihistamine immediately
Take another antihistamine, but try to break this up and place under the tongue so that the drug gets into your blood stream quicker.


Take these with you plus a mobile phone, when you visit your bees.

The immunology team will teach you what to do next including the use of an epipen. After administration it is important to dial 999 immediately and take the used epipen with you.

Going on the course involves a lot of commitment by going for desensitisation every week for 12 weeks, then once a month for several months. You can't miss a week, otherwise you have to start the course all over again

The thought of having to use the epipen first time terrifies me, but I know that if it is needed, it will have to be done. I am very fortunate that I do not live far from one of the desensitisation centres as they are few and far between

Ask your team for a practice Eppipen... not loaded and dose not have a needle... but found useful when having to teach our 9 and 13 year old children how to administer to their mum if an adult is not around.

Generally it seems that in most cases of shock following anaphylaxis the first dose of adrenalin should be followed by another within five minutes.

see
www.epipen.co.uk

and
anaphylaxis.org.uk

I do not think that it can be overstated that Epipen should ONLY be use on person that it is prescribed for... is not a cure all for bee stings!

Consequences of misuse of devices bought online could be .... possibly fatal!

Yeghes da

 

[Karol]

The immunology team teach you what to do should you have a re-action to a sting -

Swallow one antihistamine immediately
Take another antihistamine, but try to break this up and place under the tongue so that the drug gets into your blood stream quicker.


Take these with you plus a mobile phone, when you visit your bees.

Very sage advice. Speaking professionally I would also add:

1. The antihistamine of choice is chlorpheniramine (piriton). As an older generation antihistamine it has a 'broader' spectrum of action (which makes it more sedating) so provides a more generalised protective effect. Breaking up the second dose is done by quickly 'dry' chewing and moving the resulting powder under the tongue.

2. Once you've taken the chlorpheniramine don't drive you may fall asleep at the wheel.

3. Check you have a mobile signal before starting. No good if you're in the stix and can't get a signal. If that's the case consider an emergency radio pager.

4. If you have a stent fitted the risk of Kounis mediated thrombosis and coronary vaso spasm is significantly elevated and adrenaline is likely to exacerbate rather than help in which case it may be time to seriously consider giving up.

 

[B+.]

1. The antihistamine of choice is chlorpheniramine (piriton).

You need to understand that speed is of the essence. Taking tablets is just too slow acting. My wife has a M.Sc in Medicinal Chemistry and worked for GlaxoSmithKline for 17 years. When our son was stung, she gave him Piriton liquid but his throat was already begining to close (within about a minute of being stung) and he had problems swallowing. Anything that goes through the digestive system takes too long to take effect.
I take Cetirizine Dihydrochloride all of the time as part of my asthma medication so its already in my blood system but I carry two epipens too

 

[Karol]

You need to understand that speed is of the essence. Taking tablets is just too slow acting. My wife has a M.Sc in Medicinal Chemistry and worked for GlaxoSmithKline for 17 years. When our son was stung, she gave him Piriton liquid but his throat was already begining to close (within about a minute of being stung) and he had problems swallowing. Anything that goes through the digestive system takes too long to take effect.
I take Cetirizine Dihydrochloride all of the time as part of my asthma medication so its already in my blood system but I carry two epipens too

Thank you B+. You make a valid point. I am aware of the essence for speed in such a situation and I'm well aware of pharmacokinetics and bioavailability.

With all due respect to your wife, there is a vast difference between the sub-lingual (under the tongue) route and the oral route (swallowing). Dry chewing a tablet and manipulating the finely crushed powder under the tongue will result in rapid uptake of chlorpheniramine almost as quickly as if it were injected. Equally importantly the sub-lingual route misses the first pass effect so more of it is available systemically so not only do you get a rapid response, the dose of the response is also greater, see: http://www.healthline.com/health/sublingual-and-buccal-medication-administration#Definition1. Swallowing the oral tablet provides longer cover to replace the sub-lingual chlorpheniramine as the body clears it.

Taking piriton as a liquid is not a substitute for placing chlorpheniramine under the tongue. Even though it is a liquid it will as you say be subjected to the delays in being absorbed from the stomach and then passing through the liver before it makes the circulatory system. Piriton liquid under the tongue also doesn't work because the dose of piriton exposed to the capillaries under the tongue is diluted by the liquid formulation thereby reducing the speed, dose and therefore efficacy of the liquid.

P.S. One of the advantages of placing chlorpheniramine under the tongue is that it doesn't need to be swallowed so circumvents the problem of constricting throats!

 

[Dishmop]

Is loosing your temper and saying lots of rude words a bad reaction?

 

[For want of a better word]

Is loosing your temper and saying lots of rude words a bad reaction?

Tis my reaction that is prompted by some daft replies posted on this forum!

 

[itma]

...
Take these with you plus a mobile phone, when you visit your bees.
...

...
3. Check you have a mobile signal before starting. No good if you're in the stix and can't get a signal. If that's the case consider an emergency radio pager.
...

With isolated rural locations there may be some difficulty communicating your location.

Most phones have sat nav facilities these days, but does anyone know precisely HOW one can best convey a GPS location to a 999 operator? (Pretty sure you can't text to 999 ...)

 

[alldigging]

With isolated rural locations there may be some difficulty communicating your location.

Most phones have sat nav facilities these days, but does anyone know precisely HOW one can best convey a GPS location to a 999 operator? (Pretty sure you can't text to 999 ...)

You can but you have to pre-register
http://www.emergencysms.org.uk/how_to_send_text.php

You could however have each apiary location details pre-saved in drafts folder maybe though to make life easier when you're in trouble.

 

[itma]

You can but you have to pre-register
http://www.emergencysms.org.uk/how_to_send_text.php

You could however have each apiary location details pre-saved in drafts folder maybe though to make life easier when you're in trouble.

Brilliant info, potentially vital for some.

Being able to do that makes it daft NOT to have a pre-saved draft message if you have any suspicion that you might have a bad reaction at an apiary where no help is at hand.

But it still leaves open the question of the best format for GPS data ...

 

[alldigging]

Brilliant info, potentially vital for some.

Being able to do that makes it daft NOT to have a pre-saved draft message if you have any suspicion that you might have a bad reaction at an apiary where no help is at hand.

But it still leaves open the question of the best format for GPS data ...

Location
Q. Will the emergency service know where I am calling from?
A. Location information is passed to the emergency services, but texting the address or a nearby landmark will help them to find you.
Q. Can I create emergency messages and store them in my mobile phone ready to be used in an emergency?
A. Creating a message for you home address is a good idea. Some mobile phones allow 'Draft' messages or 'Templates' to be stored please check your mobile phone instructions for more information. If you do put personal details into your mobile phone we suggest you lock the phone with a PIN or password.


Have asked our local police via twitter what format they prefer.

 

[Dishmop]

Instructions for my cell phone dont tell you how to make phone calls..nor anything about the phone book.................all about texting etc.

The thing is...if you cant make a call you probably cant do anything else with it...

 

[itma]

...
The thing is...if you cant make a call you probably cant do anything else with it...

Yes, obviously you need a mobile signal.

But the point is to have DETAILED info on how to locate you PRE-WRITTEN and ready to send with a couple of 'clicks' instead of trying to describe it when you have gone all wobbly.

 

[Dishmop]

Luckily I am now able to make sure that somebody is with me when I am inspecting should something happen to me... but yes I agree that some form of quick call ought to be prgrammed into the phones of those likely to go into shock etc............and to make sure the phone is not in their pocket where they cant get it...

 

[B+.]

P.S. One of the advantages of placing chlorpheniramine under the tongue is that it doesn't need to be swallowed so circumvents the problem of constricting throats!

It is clear from the way you talk that you understand the biological pathways and how chemical processes work on them. I can only say that we did what we could and it wasn't enough. The majority of us never face a true emergency. Those of us who do, do the best we can with what we have and pray that it will be enough. We live with the consequences when it isn't.
It isn't easy for me to talk about this but I know Simon would have wanted me to help others understand how dangerous bee stings can be and how quickly they can become deadly.

 

[wessexmario]

With isolated rural locations there may be some difficulty communicating your location.

Most phones have sat nav facilities these days, but does anyone know precisely HOW one can best convey a GPS location to a 999 operator?

The emergency services are quite happy to be given a location in any format,
Street Address,
GPS Lat/Lng,
National Grid Reference.
Their mapping systems will accept any format, what matters is that what you give them is accurate.

The simplest format in rural areas is to use an 8 figure national grid reference, which is accurate to 10m.

3 methods of getting your national grid reference:
All are best done before you have an emergency, but if not, work out your exact location for yourself before you start making the emergency call.

1) at the location: use a smartphone app. Both of these android GPS apps will display your location in various formats, use Settings in either to set the display to British National Grid.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.chartcross.gpstest&hl=en_GB
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.eclipsim.gpsstatus2&hl=en_GB
This is the best way to get your location 'on the go'.

2) away from the location: use an online mapping service like this one, for locations you want to identify in advance where you'll be:
http://www.gridreferencefinder.com/
zoom and right click on the map for location details.

3) old school: use an OS map.