Bee imports post IWD

[Ian123]

I was looking at 1920 journal and as you flick through what struck was the number of adverts for foreign bees/queens and nucs

 

[For want of a better word]

That is what BIBBA propaganda would have the gullible believe.
The only hive I lost winter was my colony of Amm's.

Just can not give it up can you!

 

[Beefriendly]

Just can not give it up can you!

Sorry, I'm obligated to provide actual information that is relevant, rather than misinformation.
As I will keep banging on about; what one earth can be adapted to by bees kept in a hive,disease treated and fed and watered?

 

[Beefriendly]

Taken from the BIBBa web site.

"In my experience in Yorkshire they were all found to be inferior to our local bees. Whilst some of the imports survived and produced honey in the few and infrequent hot summers we sometimes have, they were unsuited to, and many of them were unable to survive, the long spells of cold, wet weather we often have to suffer in many of our summers and the long spells of severe cold or damp that occur in our equally unpredictable winters and springs."
The views of John Dew.

Sorry Hoppy but that sort of rhetoric is bollocks...and until BIBBA rid themselves of it they will be subject to ridicule by those of us who keep thriving exotics in Yorkshire and elsewhere.

As I've pointed out in another thread, your stated inability to keep Buckfast bees alive in the most clement part of Britain is either total lies or a reflection on poor beekeeping skills. I believe the former myself as it fits with the BIBba propaganda machine.

 

[Murox]

A question for Beefriendly - what are "exotics" in bee terms - are you meaning anything thats not AMM or mongrel ? I ask out of interest as its a term I have not encountered before. thanks.

 

[Beefriendly]

Not a problem.
Buckfast, Italian, Carniolan etc.
BUT caveat emptor. The breeder or supplier you buy from is the most important quality.
In some cases if they advertise in the "glossies" beware of their goods...wholesale vs quality.

Get their management right and they will show what the potential yields are in your area...that may not be as bad as you think... But you need to do the comaprisonsl

 

[Murox]

Not a problem.
Buckfast, Italian, Carniolan etc.
BUT caveat emptor. The breeder or supplier you buy from is the most important quality.
In some cases if they advertise in the "glossies" beware of their goods...wholesale vs quality.

Get their management right and they will show what the potential yields are in your area...they may not be as bad as you think... But you need to do the comaprisonsl

Thanks for the clarification. Carnolian are highly regarded in much of europe and are certainly tough busy little beasties. Thanks too for the caveat emptor warning. I had not realised there was so much hostility surrounding the idea of using good genetic material, or is it change and development that is the issue ?

 

[Beefriendly]

I had not realised there was so much hostility surrounding the idea of using good genetic material, or is it change and development that is the issue ?

Whole can of worms here...
Perhaps best defined as where do you want to go with your beekeeping.
Just keep bees? Maximum honey? ETC.

Try different types and see how it works for your needs in your area.

 

[Ian123]

Really got to agree 100% with what bf has said, try and compare and i doubt many will go back...I started with 2 surrey mongrel hives aged 10 an old boy in the same village had about 15 hives of local/french imported amm, in a niegbouring village a young couple ran about 40 and imported breeder queens nz/italian. The old chap i helped for 9 years and it was like going to war inspecting the hives and that was in the day of old hooped viel tucked in. When i walked over to the other village or my mum dropped me off it was a holiday camp. Bibba spout an awful lot of rubbish and have done for many years, I suppose today with social media they can shout a bit louder. I have no problems with a beek wanting to keep a local/native bee but when i hear a group calling for bans and just out right crap affecting how i keep mine then a line needs to be drawn, or at least some of the bs corrected. I am sure there are good amm out there but quite frankly when you see or meet some of the breeding groups or associations abroad they are so far ahead its daft

 

[Murox]

Really got to agree 100% with what bf has said, try and compare and i doubt many will go back... I am sure there are good amm out there but quite frankly when you see or meet some of the breeding groups or associations abroad they are so far ahead its daft

Yes, what i find hard to believe is just how insular and Backward looking the bee organizations are in uk. I spent 12+ yrs in europe, they are mot really ahead, its just that uk only looks back instead of forwards. THE amm's that i know locally are docile, hardy but not that prolific, they also only seem to collect enough stores for their Needs plus à little extra, but Some that could be down to the local Climate.

 

[beebopper]

Even if I wanted to keep 'native' bees where I live how would it be possible - the buggers would simply breed with the local bees and just add to the heinz mix.

 

[Poly Hive]

It's the climate yes.

There is a lot of absolute rubbish spoken about AMM most of which came from theoreticians who have never actually worked the bee.

PH

 

[beebopper]

Sorry, I'm obligated to

Your obligated to do nothing whatsoever.
But I do buy in good buckfast queens to make my beekeeping work for me.

 

[TooBee...]

try this link to an american university library, lots of BBKA stuff up until 1880 to 1920's

https://archive.org/search.php?query=british bee journal

in 1919 E. Boobier, of Valley Apiary, in Bishopston, South Wales, seems to have clearly believed that Dutch (AMM?) bees were immune or more resistant to the IoWD, as he was pleased the entire county was restocked! Unfortunately he doesn’t say at the beginning of his article if the healthy hives he inspected were descendants of recently imported bees or not? I’ll try and look through other articles to glean more info.

May 15 1919 The British Bee Journal
'Notes from South Wales’ page 193

“The Dutch bees have arrived here for the restocking of the county, Glamorganshire, and they arrived quite safe...they are very strong and look very healthy, and hope that it will be the means of keeping the ‘Isle of White’ disease away.”

https://archive.org/details/britishbeejourna1919lond/page/194

 

[beebopper]

It's the climate yes.

There is a lot of absolute rubbish spoken about AMM most of which came from theoreticians who have never actually worked the bee.

PH

From a honey crop point of view surely the least theoretical view point would be from bee farmers - do beefarmers use AMM? I don't think so but I happy to be put right.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

From a honey crop point of view surely the least theoretical view point would be from bee farmers - do beefarmers use AMM? I don't think so but I happy to be put right.

I know two bee farmers in south east Cornwall who use Amm.

CVB

 

[For want of a better word]

I know two bee farmers in south east Cornwall who use Amm.

CVB

Six possibly seven in Cornwall .... and quite a few Beefarmers Association members across the land.

Some running 1000 + colonies!

Chons da

 

[For want of a better word]

Even if I wanted to keep 'native' bees where I live how would it be possible - the buggers would simply breed with the local bees and just add to the heinz mix.

B+ uses II for his Pedigree Carniolian strains of bees.
Hivemaker uses II for his Pedigree "Buckfasts"

Unless you live on an isolated island that seems to be the only way to go
( and even then you would have to keep and eye on your neighbors to make sure they did not sneak in a colony of improbable bees to make mischief!)

Chons da

 

[Finman]

do beefarmers use AMM? I don't think so but I happy to be put right.

When you look several continents, where black bees were imported first. Black bees are not used by professionals any more and not even in crossings.

Black bee's relative Iberian bee may be favorit in Spain and Portugal.

 

[Stiffy]

From a honey crop point of view surely the least theoretical view point would be from bee farmers - do beefarmers use AMM? I don't think so but I happy to be put right.

Some do but I understand most use Buckfast or Carnies
S