Bee imports post IWD

[SDM]

Six possibly seven in Cornwall .... and quite a few Beefarmers Association members across the land.

Some running 1000 + colonies!

Chons da

Some ? You mean 1 yes ?
Im sure itld commented once before on this thst Amm made uo a very small percentage of bee farmer stock, Buckfast followed by Carnica making uo the vast majority. How many of those black bees are actually uk stock is another question, as is how many keep a few blacks just for the purpose of selling queens as i do.

 

[Into the lions den]

Six possibly seven in Cornwall .... and quite a few Beefarmers Association members across the land.

Some running 1000 + colonies!

Chons da

Yeah right.

Some of these people persist in their claims for whatever reason I don't know, yet buy in loads of queens from myself. Its largely drivel for some perceived advantage in marketing.

Does not only mean the folk who claim their honey is from native bees (one of whom regularly took imported queens from me and grafted from them and claimed they only had 'local' bees).....but also some who sell 'local' bees in nucs.

As there are approximately SIX to EIGHT 1000 hive plus entities in the UK you might like to name these 'some'. I can think of ONE only who claims it......but there is a long story to that tale. Three of the biggest buy a LOT of queens from me, plus there is our own unit. One other brings in a lot of Buckfast types and another a lot of carnica. That's SIX out of 6 to 8. Why? Because they work.

FWIW...the BFA distances itself from the 'must be native' groups (its the members choice what they keep). Regarding the black bee event at the Eden project last spring, it was claimed it had beefarmers support....there was ONE, and NOT endorsed by the BFA. A BFA member yes, but very much there as an individual despite statements issued to the contrary. Not a large scale member either.

 

[mbc]

I have a couple of hundred welsh natives and I guess many of the smaller bee farmers (40-150 stocks) keep natives plus Peter Edwards and chain bridge hiney farm in the Scottish Borders so these bees work for some of us in the right circumstances.

 

[B+.]

Unless you live on an isolated island that seems to be the only way to go
( and even then you would have to keep and eye on your neighbors to make sure they did not sneak in a colony of improbable bees to make mischief!)

Chons da

Not sure what you mean about that. If you're using II, it doesn't matter what bees your neighbour has because you control the drones too.

 

[SDM]

I have a couple of hundred welsh natives and I guess many of the smaller bee farmers (40-150 stocks) keep natives plus Peter Edwards and chain bridge hiney farm in the Scottish Borders so these bees work for some of us in the right circumstances.

Youd be guessing wrong locally to me. 2 Buckfast, 2 carnica 1 claiming pure welsh blacks despite 400 Buckfast and carnica hives within 15 miles of him.

 

[Poly Hive]

Well I know of one largish operation, a very successful one at that which decided to change to the Carnies for the simple reason they wintered better.

PH

 

[foghornleghorn]

Word on the street here is imports are up over 3 fold compared to other years

 

[SDM]

Word on the street here is imports are up over 3 fold compared to other years

A recent chat i had with a chap who'll remain nameless,
suggested that the vast majority of those imports are Amm.

 

[For want of a better word]

Not sure what you mean about that. If you're using II, it doesn't matter what bees your neighbour has because you control the drones too.

II is the only way to ensure your lines...

What I meant was, that even on an isolated island situation it would be possible for drones ... not of your choice.. to somehow get into the population.
Hence the strict controls on the Baltic islands!

 

[Finman]

even on an isolated island situation it would be possible for drones !

Such rubbish, again. You can kill unproper queens, when they appear.

When the hive of B+ starts to sting and swarm, it has AMM genes.

 

[foghornleghorn]

A recent chat i had with a chap who'll remain nameless,
suggested that the vast majority of those imports are Amm.

Maybe majority of the illegal imports but not the official, I'd take what he says with a good pinch of salt

 

[Into the lions den]

Maybe majority of the illegal imports but not the official, I'd take what he says with a good pinch of salt

Quite so.....but..........

From the information I have...some of it direct from individuals involved....many of the back bees (lumping mellifera and iberica together) that came in have travelled without papers.

Black bees, raised on UK/Irish National frames. Shipped into UK and then sold as Amm nucs with no mention of non UK origin.

There will be more than me on here who was contacted two years ago by one of the Spanish rearers, who was stuck with over 200 black bee nucs raised for a UK reseller who he had sold several hundred a year to, and then did not get paid and tried to hawk them around potential UK clients (big ones only) at about 50 quid a nuc. Nat. gear no use to him in Spain so he was in a right cleft stick.

 

[foghornleghorn]

Quite so.....but..........

From the information I have...some of it direct from individuals involved....many of the back bees (lumping mellifera and iberica together) that came in have travelled without papers.

Black bees, raised on UK/Irish National frames. Shipped into UK and then sold as Amm nucs with no mention of non UK origin.

There will be more than me on here who was contacted two years ago by one of the Spanish rearers, who was stuck with over 200 black bee nucs raised for a UK reseller who he had sold several hundred a year to, and then did not get paid and tried to hawk them around potential UK clients (big ones only) at about 50 quid a nuc. Nat. gear no use to him in Spain so he was in a right cleft stick.

A box of 50 or 60 queens with no papers was found in the post last year and destroyed. Would wonder if there's many more going through undetected

 

[B+.]

II is the only way to ensure your lines...

What I meant was, that even on an isolated island situation it would be possible for drones ... not of your choice.. to somehow get into the population.
Hence the strict controls on the Baltic islands!

The island mating stations are in the Wadden Sea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wadden_Sea) not in the Baltic. The AGT also works on the island of Veli Drvenik in the Adriatic.
The queens I have in my test group at the moment are mostly from the Dutch island of Vlieland or instrumentally inseminated. I also have some older stock which was mated on Wangerooge or Neuwerk. These are national parks with no resident bee populations and strict legal controls over which lines are allowed on the islands. Your fears are unwarranted.

 

[SDM]

Maybe majority of the illegal imports but not the official, I'd take what he says with a good pinch of salt

Are imported queens listed by race ?

 

[foghornleghorn]

Are imported queens listed by race ?

Only by country
Spain, germany, slovenia, malta and france are where the majority came from last year

 

[SDM]

Only by country
Spain, germany, slovenia and france are where the majority came from last year

Well then, ive no reason to doubt the information i was given.

 

[foghornleghorn]

Well then, ive no reason to doubt the information i was given.

There's nothing to back it up either only whispers from people who like to stir sh1t. There isn't much of a market over here for bees compared to the uk so hard to see why many amm would be imported unless it was to provide an outcross and even still that would only be a handful or two, nowhere near the majority.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

There's nothing to back it up either only whispers from people who like to stir sh1t.

 

[SDM]

There's nothing to back it up either only whispers from people who like to stir sh1t. There isn't much of a market over here for bees compared to the uk so hard to see why many amm would be imported unless it was to provide an outcross and even still that would only be a handful or two, nowhere near the majority.

Stirring isnt consistent with the conversation i had, he was after all telling me how he does not feel resented within FIBKA for being a Buckfast keeper.
On top of outcrossing, you are ignoring the fact that it seems thst demand often outstrips supply where queens are concerned