Asian Hornets...

[jenkinsbrynmair]

That doesn't seem to be what we are hearing from France etc.

maybe because it's a different country?

 

[fian]

maybe because it's a different country?

And what is the difference? Climate of course is not in view of the map and according to the köppen criteria.

 

[Sutty]

maybe because it's a different country?

Ah! Are you hoping that the hornets forgot to get a visa following Brexit?
Sadly little to no climatic difference between northern France and southern Britain.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

really?

 

[Karol]

And what is the difference? Climate of course is not in view of the map and according to the köppen criteria.

Ecology not just climate.

Why is it that as you say 75% of Velutina in Galicia is coastal?

As I said, Velutina is a forested wetland species. The UK may be forested in places but rarely is it forested wetland. Moreover, the UK doesn't do hedgerows as they do in France. We have considerably fewer insects on our monoculture hedgeless fields.

 

[rolande]

Jersey isn't forested wetland either is it?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

but the climate there is totally different to ours

 

[Ian123]

We have considerably fewer insects on our monoculture hedgeless fields.

That’s not really true for considerable parts of southern England and the southern coast, likely to be the areas most at risk or affected!

 

[fian]

Let's say that in the coastal area (75km) the annual rainfall is greater than 1500mm although clearly differentiated by seasons (November-January with monthly values of 150mm that gradually decrease until summer with values below 20 in July and August ). As we move inland, rainfall falls in autumn and winter, not exceeding 100 mm on a monthly average and maintaining a minimum of 20 mm in summer.
Regarding the temperatures on the coast, the average thermal amplitude is lower than 11°, which rises to 17° as we move inland. In coastal areas it is more difficult for there to be frosts with an almost annual cultivation period, while indoors it can be reduced to 200 days.
As I have already mentioned on other occasions, certain species that the velutinas can recognize as "own" are also more common in the coastal area, such as camellias, azaleas and eucalyptus, while inland forests with pine, chestnut, oak or scrubland with gorse, heather, holm oak.
It differs this from the British climate. Not so much annual rainfall is lower but more constant in the UK. The same can be said of temperatures. It is true that the cultivation period is shorter.
The humid monsoon climate is characterized by:
-Precipitation regime in two periods although the monthly average is always greater than 40 mm. It is not that in the dry season it does not rain but in the wet season the precipitation is torrential and continues.
-Very constant temperature regime with average environment at 28°C.
The dry monsoon climate differs from the wet one in that the rainfall and average temperature regime is more pronounced.
Compare the Climate and Weather in Leicester, Bristol, Rianxo, Monforte de Lemos, Kolkata, and Manila - Weather Spark Monforte-de-Lemos-Calcutta-and-Manila
Link to compare.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

That's set me up for a pre lunch nap

 

[Karol]

That’s not really true for considerable parts of southern England and the southern coast, likely to be the areas most at risk or affected!

So why is there no vespine species already occupying the "Velutina" space in Southern England after millions of years of evolution?

Crabro is comparable to Velutina so why do Crabro nests only have 200 - 400 adults per nest?

Why does Velutina have to supplement its diet during the hunting phase of its lifecycle contrary to normal Vespine behaviour?

We will have landfall in the UK and sporadic outbreaks BUT, Velutina has to compete in the UK with far more nibble competitors in Vulgaris and Germanica. Another reason to preserve our native wasps and refrain from injudicious nest destruction.

 

[fian]

So why is there no vespine species already occupying the "Velutina" space in Southern England after millions of years of evolution?

Crabro is comparable to Velutina so why do Crabro nests only have 200 - 400 adults per nest?

Why does Velutina have to supplement its diet during the hunting phase of its lifecycle contrary to normal Vespine behaviour?

We will have landfall in the UK and sporadic outbreaks BUT, Velutina has to compete in the UK with far more nibble competitors in Vulgaris and Germanica. Another reason to preserve our native wasps and refrain from injudicious nest destruction.

Crabro is not as compatible as you say, in fact in Galicia they are seen less and less since the velutina is occupying its ecological space.
Crabro nests are smaller because they are all queens and drones, that is, reproductive members, so that number is enough to give survival to the new generation, while the colony of velutinas is like a nest of honey bees.
There is a single queen that towards the end of the season lays new queens and drones in such a way that the next generation is ensured when the fertilized queens hibernate. Keep in mind that a velutin nest can house 15,000 worker cells, enough soldiers to provide protein for the future generation of reproductive members.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Crabro nests are smaller because they are all queens and drones, that is, reproductive members, so that number is enough to give survival to the new generation, while the colony of velutinas is like a nest of honey bees.
There is a single queen that towards the end of the season lays new queens and drones

You contradict yourself. The second highlighted bit is correct.
Crabro nests have one queen and multiple workers till the nest matures and queens and drones are produced

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The second highlighted bit is correct.
Crabro nests have one queen and multiple workers till the nest matures and queens and drones are produced

exactly the same as Velutina. And the evidence we have seen here thus far is that the foundress queen struggles to build and populate the primary nest in good time to be able to progress to, and populate a secondary.
And all the secondary nest found thus far have been so late in developing they failed to produce sexuals that matured early enough for the queens to mate and hibernate.
It seems that many relish the prospect of AH establishing themselves here so that they can be part of the BBKA formation hand wringing team.
Even had one opinionated buffoon on facebook last week stating that Velutina were already well established over here.
Me, for the moment I'm happy to sit back, observe, see through the usual collective hysteria and see what transpires.
Difference between us and the continent is, we have indentified a potential problem and prepared for it, whilst over there, they totally ignored the possible problem until it was well established and too late to tackle.

 

[rolande]

Well I didn't join a handwringing team when varroa came in and I won't be joining one *if* these hornets do get established. I'll simply continue keeping bees with whatever adaptions become necessary. But in the meantime I'm not going to put my faith in the as yet unsubstantiated claim that they won't be able to establish to the point of being a pest. Only time will tell but the important thing is to be conscious of the possibility and to take immediate action if we come across one.

------------

On a slightly different tack, I do wonder whether the time that some of the SBIs are now needing to devote to tracking these nests may have a knock on issue of increased efb in the next few years.

 

[ericbeaumont]

knock on issue of increased efb

Yes, they're understaffed and EFB had kept them busy in London & South East until AH diverted them to the South Coast.

 

[rampino]

I’m over in Brittany near St Malo for the last couple of weeks. I’ve seen one definite Asian Hornet and 3 possibles. The terrain and climate here are like Cornwall.

 

[JamezF]

I’m over in Brittany near St Malo for the last couple of weeks. I’ve seen one definite Asian Hornet and 3 possibles. The terrain and climate here are like Cornwall.

You mean it's bucketing down?

James

 

[rampino]

It does bucket it down here occasionally, but there are no wetlands locally to my knowledge. Unless you count small areas of salt marsh.

 

[Malcolm B.]

IF Velutina were to establish itself in the UK it will ameliorate to UK ecology and cause no more harm than Vulgaris or Germanica.

So should we just abandon this discussion on taking precautions and move on to other subjects?

I have the greatest respect for you, Mr Karol - and everybody else here, but I do seem to remember a certain Prime-minister returning from Munich and waving a piece of paper. He too said "Nothing was going to happen!"

I would much rather have a factory full of fire extinguishers and NO fire - than a factory on fire with no extinguishers.

As in Scouting - Be Prepared!

just my two pennyworth.

Malcolm B.