Asian Hornet APP

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Do you have the new Asian hornet app on your smartphone


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Yes. Not much point to one is there ?
Like I said, it was the only research I've found. It explored one use of fipronil, that's all. The system brings some relief from predation for a short period. It's not a complete solution, it's probably a stepping stone to finding a better solution.
 
see a FC study conducted that would satisfy scientists and if appropriate put in place the legislation needed to make it a viable method of treatment
FC is the correct tool for exterminating established infestations such as those on the continent. We are NOT in that position in the UK
Karol's damnation of the use of FC (given current AH UK* status) is understandable, but Old Farm's point is valid: if the NBU wait until the game is up they will have no idea how to strategise the use of FC for Inspectors or public, and by then Mazzamazda's experience will be all that they have to go on.

One would hope that evaluation of FC will be at the top of an upcoming DEFRA agenda, even if the UK doesn't need to implement the results and the file gathers dust.

*Edited for accuracy.
 
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I fully agree with you on this process and it is how I'm going to proceed. What confused me is this statement from Karol who has been my guiding light so far on how we tackle AH but it sort of flies in the face of his previous guidance? Oh ......... hang on! I just read and re read this sentence - I interpreted completely the other way around!!! I think it means use bait stations not traps! Sorry to waste everybody's time on a wet and dismal Sunday evening!
Now ....... grey squirrels - could have a field day around here!
Apologies. I have amended the offending sentence to remove any confusion. Absolutely use bait stations not traps.

One of the principal conclusions reached by Mazzamazda is that traps are highly counter productive.
 
Karol's damnation of the use of FC (given current AH status) is understandable, but Old Farm's point is valid: if the NBU wait until the game is up they will have no idea how to strategise the use of FC for Inspectors or public, and by then Mazzamazda's experience will be all that they have to go on.

One would hope that evaluation of FC will be at the top of an upcoming DEFRA agenda, even if the UK doesn't need to implement the results and the file gathers dust.
Damnation? Hardly, I advised on how to 'formulate' FC used overseas where there was an overwhelming infestation. Very successfully I would ad albeit not 'validated' by an * academic institution. (* I had intended to use a few choice adjectives but shall show restraint).

Damnation of use of FC in the UK given the absence of infestation. That's a completely different thing. If and only if there's an infestation which overwhelms the NBU will it be time to contemplate FC in the UK.

I do know there is interest in formal research behind the scenes. No idea if anything will come of it and in any event such work should not be published in the absence of any infestation so as not to encourage inappropriate and unjustified use in the UK.
 
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Sorry, Not sure I understand this - can you clarify for me please.
I have decided on bait stations in places where I can monitor regularly. Probably going out mid to late March. Hopefully this is the right way forward.
If or when one is seen - is it best to report via the app and leave it alone to carry on feeding or should I catch it, unsquished and freeze?
I will be using trappit in the station.
Thanks
Apologies for any confusion caused. Wick based bait stations are definitely the way to go.

Monitor and if you detect the presence of velutina report it directly to the NBU and ask them what they would like you to do.

Unless you have experience of dealing with velutina directly, I suspect it would be difficult to differentiate between a queen and a worker. There are many factors which influence when queens ultimately become nest bound so making assumptions based on time of year is miss guided. Killing workers prematurely may be the difference between nest eradication and nest survival. Queens will return to the same food source until there is sufficient brood in the nest to sustain them which can be as late as summer.
 
You don't have to catch AHs to apply FC, it can be dotted on their thorax while they are feeding. They are not aggressive when feeding.

I would like to know how long it is before the Fipronil is deactivated. What is the threat to anything that enters the nest (after seeing a woodpecker nesting in an old AH nest) or eats the dead insects. I'm asking the question because I believe people will use this method quietly and discretely to protect their hives. I'm not promoting it, I just want to know the consequences.

If you read the study I linked to, the fipronil was put in protein pellets. The hives that were being predated were closed for a couple of hours in the morning and the pellets left at the hives, the hornets took the pellets. After feeding time the pellets were removed and the bees released. It wasn't a permanent solution, it killed the larvae, so effectively a brood break and predation was slowed.
Laced protein pellets were never going to work. Just shows a lack of understanding of wasp biology. Adult wasps don't have the mouth parts to process hard protein. Larvae do. Consequently there's no trophallaxis chain to the queen as the larvae are killed so don't express carbohydrates to feed the adults. All that happens in such a situation is the adult hornets switch to sweet feeding so are no longer seen at hives until such time as new brood hatches. FC is different because it is formulated to encourage trophallaxis after preening on forager return. In embryonic and small nests it will be the queen that does the preening. In larger nests the sentries that do the preening will share the laced carbs with the queen trophallactically. The target is the queen. It may take several attempts but once the queen is dead, end of, the colony collapses.
 
I was going to post on a new thread, but seeing that the AH springtime strategy banter has kicked off here in earnest, in what is an exhaustive (if not exhausting) exchange ...

The stalls at the Beekeeping Show on Saturday were (worryingly) awash with traps and gadgets to deal with the Asian Hornet, and I - like others - had noticed that the monthly 'to do' notes published in the latest BBKA mag advised getting prepared to trap (though, conspicuously not in the similar Beecraft column).

As far as I am aware - and whilst the cluster of nests found in Kent probably leads most of us to conclude that we possibly do have established populations - 1) We have no firm view on this from the NBU, 2) They are certainly not endemic (as in e.g. France), and 3) We have no idea what their geographic spread will be. It's still early stages.

If I were near those sites in Kent (or even other sites where nests were found, especially on the south coast), I might well be thinking/acting differently, but what the hell is the benefit of spring trapping to the rest of us?

I know the impact (and efficacy) will depend on the trap design and the time in spring it is set, but I think there is no doubt that there will be a substantial and unnecessary bycatch of native species, and to what end, if you are doing this speculatively? As I say, if you have had known populations nearby, I get it, but if not???

So, you catch (and kill) a juvenile Queen, out to establish it's primary nest. Well done 👍 Have you made an effective intervention? Probably not, if you think say a hundred foundress Queens may have been produced by the originating nest, but only very few (a percent or so?) might go on to successfully establish successful secondary nests of their own. And a dead hornet can't be tracked. Bravo.

I'm clearly missing something.

I understand the merits of bait stations, but, as a hobbyist, and in an area not affected (and unlikely to be anytime soon), I have to be honest and admit that I am not going to be monitoring, myself.

In educating ourselves it is evident that we are (like the traps) more or less selective in what we assimilate. I for one am putting all my eggs in the NBU basket - especially having read the expansive comments from Karol in this thread - and await their ongoing advice.

I have come to conclude (given that there are only certain things genuinely in our control) that, in any event, the absolutely best way of defending against the hornet is to maintain strong, healthy, disease-free colonies with few stressors. Situation normal.

Every other mitigating intervention has a downside.
For example, I was drawn to the idea of a hive muzzle, but even there, I have read research papers which suggest that the tipping point at which they have a positive benefit in relation to hive mortality is when there are >5 hawking hornets. Where there are fewer (or none), they are relatively detrimental to colony survival.

That is to say we would be harming our colonies by introducing these measures pre-emptively...

... just like we would be harming our populations of native insects by setting traps pre-emptively.

I would be very interested to know how many of your local Associations are actively advising their members to undertake spring trapping. One local Association near me is promoting a trap. Ours will thankfully not yet be endorsing trapping.

I know it's best to be prepared, but for me, that just means education now, until or unless the beasties arrive, and the NBU strategy pivots.

Always happy to learn and reflect.
 
how many of your local Associations are actively advising their members to undertake spring trapping
Our association (Epping Forest BKA, a division of Essex) is recommending traps, but then we had a nest on our patch last summer in Clapton, Hackney, NE London, less than 2 miles from where I live and a four-minute walk from the nest to my nearest hives.

I had a moment of concentration one morning last summer when I went to the front bedroom window to let in our patrolling cat, and saw for 20 seconds an AH moving in that particuar vespid style of occasional swoopy investigation. It went back past 10 minutes later, and that was that. The NBU were on the hunt for the nest at the time and quite soon a searching SBI found it in a street tree, pointed out to them by a local passer-by.

The queen may have arrived by train at the Eurostar engineering depot at Temple Mills, Leyton, less than two miles further east, or on imported veg from New Spitalfields Market at Leyton, which sells wholesale exotic fruit, vegetables and flowers ... the greatest choice of these products of any Market in Europe.

It is easy to suggest that AH is not currently a general UK threat, but rail depots and wholesale markets exist everywhere and practical information & promotion now will help embed future procedure. Despite information, links, seminars and lectures made available to our members over the last five years, one was heard to say to another recently 'You don't need to bother, they're not around here'. The beekeeper who said that has hives five miles from the Clapton nest.

harming our populations of native insects by setting traps pre-emptively
I have learned that the Veto-Pharma trap requires a 6mm hole to be made near the top of the tub to release by-catch.
 
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It is easy to suggest that AH is not currently a general UK threat, but rail depots and wholesale markets exist everywhere and practical information & promotion now will help embed future procedure.

Great feedback, Eric, from someone who is in an area which is potentially (though hopefully/likely(?) not) impacted in 2024.

The whole importations risk is never going to go away, sadly. I forget whether it was Hull last year (vs. the year before), but I do seem to recall also a nest found in the Ripon area last year. If I were to live up there, would I be on an agressive AH mission ?? Probably not ... though I might then be possibly setting-up bait/monitoring stations to look-out for further incursions to report to the NBU.

Being further South, nearer to Kent, and in the Thames corridor, I understand your local Association's position. I will be interesting to see how it develops this year, and if such action/advice is vindicated in your area.
 
I don't expect to catch an AH this year. Nearest report was Hull which is just over the Humber but I'm a good way south of there.
No push to start trapping or monitoring in Lincolnshire.
But I'm experimenting with a home made monitoring trap. 8mm entrance hole, 5.5mm bycatch holes. It's been up a couple of weeks. Nothing. VespaCatch bait from Thorne. I was expecting to catch the odd early queen wasp. When I do I'll kill it, measure it and increase the size of the bycatch holes.
The only other insect that might have been caught in the trap recently was a bumblebee queen but that won't get through the 8mm entrance hole.
. . . . Ben
 
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I don't expect to catch an AH this year. Nearest report was Hull which is just over the Humber but I'm a good way south of there.
No push to start trapping or monitoring in Lincolnshire.
But I'm experimenting with a home made monitoring trap. 8mm entrance hole, 5.5mm bycatch holes. It's been up a couple of weeks. Nothing. VespaCatch bait from Thorne. I was expecting to catch the odd early queen wasp. When I do I'll kill it, measure it and increase the size of the bycatch holes.
The only other insect that might have been caught in the trap was a bumblebee queen but that won't get through the 8mm entrance hole.
. . . . Ben
Why kill the queen wasp? You could put the trap in the fridge to immobilise it so you could measure it, rewarm & release.
 
Why kill the queen wasp? You could put the trap in the fridge to immobilise it so you could measure it, rewarm & release.
OK. Will do.

I emptied a wasp trap 5? years ago in August? September?, the last time I had nucs being overrun with wasps, and examined a european hornet that had also been caught. Rare here, I'd not seen them before. I got a surprise when it woke up and ran off the table. Tough little insect these Vespides.
 
Our association (Epping Forest BKA, a division of Essex) is recommending traps, but then we had a nest on our patch last summer in Clapton, Hackney, NE London, less than 2 miles from where I live and a four-minute walk from the nest to my nearest hives.

I had a moment of concentration one morning last summer when I went to the front bedroom window to let in our patrollling cat, and saw for 20 seconds an AH moving in that particuar vespid style of occasional swoopy investigation. It went back past 10 minutes later, and that was that. The NBU were on the hunt for the nest at the time and quite soon a searching SBI found it in a street tree, pointed out to them by a local passer-by.

The queen may have arrived by train at the Eurostar engineering depot at Temple Mills, Leyton, less than two miles further east, or on imported veg from New Spitalfields Market at Leyton, which sells wholesale exotic fruit, vegetables and flowers ... the greatest choice of these products of any Market in Europe.

It is easy to suggest that AH is not currently a general UK threat, but rail depots and wholesale markets exist everywhere and practical information & promotion now will help embed future procedure. Despite information, links, seminars and lectures made available to our members over the last five years, one was heard to say to another recently 'You don't need to bother, they're not around here'. The beekeeper who said that has hives five miles from the Clapton nest.


I have learned that the Veto-Pharma trap requires a 6mm hole to be made near the top of the tub to release by-catch.
The advise on bycatch escape holes changes from time to time. To keep in workers it needs to be 5.5mm; to keep in queens Jersey are going with 7mm this year, though some people seem to think the hole should be 6.5mm. Guess we'll have a better idea in a few months.
 
The advise on bycatch escape holes changes from time to time. To keep in workers it needs to be 5.5mm; to keep in queens Jersey are going with 7mm this year, though some people seem to think the hole should be 6.5mm. Guess we'll have a better idea in a few months.
All good - in relation to sizing indications, I guess - but you are still going to have a cohort of fatigued, stressed and disorienteated OTHER insects who don't escape, and who exipre. Anyone who has ever set a wasp trap (of whatever design) must be able to relate to that.

If people with a (locational) need choose to trap, proportionately, then OK; but if the whole of the UK is now trapping indiscriminately, well it's time to turn off the lights.
 
All good - in relation to sizing indications, I guess - but you are still going to have a cohort of fatigued, stressed and disorienteated OTHER insects who don't escape, and who exipre. Anyone who has ever set a wasp trap (of whatever design) must be able to relate to that.

If people with a (locational) need choose to trap, proportionately, then OK; but if the whole of the UK is now trapping indiscriminately, well it's time to turn off the lights.
One has to laugh. There are so many gullible people willing to be taken in.
 
I don't expect to catch an AH this year. Nearest report was Hull which is just over the Humber but I'm a good way south of there.
No push to start trapping or monitoring in Lincolnshire.
But I'm experimenting with a home made monitoring trap. 8mm entrance hole, 5.5mm bycatch holes. It's been up a couple of weeks. Nothing. VespaCatch bait from Thorne. I was expecting to catch the odd early queen wasp. When I do I'll kill it, measure it and increase the size of the bycatch holes.
The only other insect that might have been caught in the trap recently was a bumblebee queen but that won't get through the 8mm entrance hole.
. . . . Ben
Just use a wick based bait station. No bycatch. No harm to indigenous vespine populations. No loss of indigenous vespine competition. Far less risk of velutina getting a foot hold. Far less d**king around.
 
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