Anyone think Himalayan Balsam is a good idea?

[Marvin]

Here are a couple of references that might change your mind.

http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/news/Himalayan-balsam-having-devastating-impact-Derbyshire-rivers/article-1217086-detail/article.html

http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/m_pdf/n_m_Himalayan_Balsam_Leaflet_Web1.pdf

 

[VEG]

Well my bees are loving it so I dont mind it.

 

[topographic]

It may be good for a honey harvest now but it is an invasive damaging non-indigenous plant and needs controlling. Bbalsam, on many watercourses in the ribble valley and other parts of the north west is the dominant plant. It needs concerted action to limit the damage it is doing to british flora. We are seeing similar issues with knotweed. Most plants can have advantages (you can eat young knotweed like asparagus) but the disadvantages outweigh any benefits.

 

[hedgerow pete]

knot weed is on the european list top 100 of dangourus and invasive plants i think balsam ant far behind it

 

[victor meldrew]

At the risk of repeating myself, I reiterate, 10,000 years ago, these islands were under 6 kilometres of ice ,therefore all species are alien .
Darwin has it, the most fitted to survive will!!.

John Wilkinson

 

[hedgerow pete]

darwin never had to kill japanise knott weed, all he did is went on a cruise wrote a book and grew a marvalous bread to impress the ladies

 

[victor meldrew]

darwin never had to kill japanise knott weed, all he did is went on a cruise wrote a book and grew a marvalous bread to impress the ladies

Is this the same hedgerow pete who wanted some HB seeds ?

John

PS sorry, you were talking about golden rod ( there is however a canadian variety)

 

[JCBrum]

I used to have a marvalous bread, but I cut it off.

 

[rae]

At least balsam can be easily killed off - if you strim it twice in a season and prevent it from setting seed, that's it, it is dead. Knotweed on the other hand is very hard to kill.

 

[Rosti]

"I used to have a marvalous bread, but I cut it off."

I dough know if I would keep it either JC? if I had bread on my chin I think I would cut it off as well.

 

[hedgerow pete]

yes very funny

iam off to shave this bap under my nose

 

[Geoff]

You can't use Darwin to justify the importation of an exotic, rampant specie where it does not have its natural controls. Darwins ideas were developed while he studied isolated ecosystems while on his famous voyage in the Beagle.
If we allow the spread of exotic species around the world to go unchecked then we will end up with very bland ecosytems that are dominated by just a few very vigorous species.

 

[VEG]

Well love it or hate it its here.

 

[victor meldrew]

Of course I can quote Darwin, why not ?.
Seeds in the hold of a ship, attached to a birds legs , passed through a birds digestive system! .
Lot's of natural transport systems carry flora around the planet (unless of course you want to deny that man himself is part of nature, which he most certainly is).

Budgerigars survive in the uk by becoming multi coloured under the infuence of mankind but this doesn't make mankind godlike !, it's just another example of sybiosis .
John Wilkinson

 

[Geoff]

Of course I can quote Darwin, why not ?.
Seeds in the hold of a ship, attached to a birds legs , passed through a birds digestive system! .
Lot's of natural transport systems carry flora around the planet (unless of course you want to deny that man himself is part of nature, which he most certainly is).

Budgerigars survive in the uk by becoming multi coloured under the infuence of mankind but this doesn't make mankind godlike !, it's just another example of sybiosis .
John Wilkinson

That wasn't what i said. I said JUSTIFY which is what you were doing. The way man moves things around the planet is not natural. Moving a plant thousands of miles just because it might look pretty in the garden is not natural which is what happened with Himalayan Balsam and Japanese Knotweed and to say it is is bizarre. People brought in the grey squirrel for the same reason. They were moved over distances that nature could not do.
What is sybiosis? I have never come across that term.
Modern man is not generally regarded as part of nature. The natural world is the bit that exists without man's intervention. I sometimes wonder about at what point in our human development we stopped being part of the natural world

 

[Hombre]

10,000 years ago, these islands were under 6 kilometres of ice

Why did it take the scientists that long to discover global warming I wonder, or was that actually done by tax collectors and politicians world wide?

 

[JCBrum]

Why did it take the scientists that long to discover global warming I wonder, or was that actually done by tax collectors and politicians world wide?

Climate change is a natural phenomenon. Global warming is fiction.

 

[Rosti]

JCBrum said

Climate change is a natural phenomenon. Global warming is fiction.

JC surely there is a distinction between symptom and cause? Climate change = sympton >> significant cause = higher carbon release >> human interference = industrial revolution. QED: mankind guilty of non-natural climate change via unintentional atmospheric free carbon increase?

Whilst I am being guilt ridden does that make beekeepers guilty for increasing the spread of H. Balsam (no Hbees then reduced pollination = reduced seeds) or are we simply making the best of an unfortunate event?

Yorkshire BKA have an organised w/e a year where they help clear balsam from waterways

 

[JCBrum]

JC surely there is a distinction between symptom and cause?

Most definitely.

Climate change = sympton >> significant cause = higher carbon release >> human interference = industrial revolution.

Most definitely not a safe conclusion. It's a hypothesis promoted by politicians, financial entrepreneurs, and naive academics. Atm it's a 'bandwagon'.

QED: mankind guilty of non-natural climate change via unintentional atmospheric free carbon increase?

Cows do more damage than the industrial revolution ever did. Never underestimate public gullibilty.

Whilst I am being guilt ridden does that make beekeepers guilty for increasing the spread of H. Balsam (no Hbees then reduced pollination = reduced seeds) or are we simply making the best of an unfortunate event?

Possibly yes, but deal with it.

BKA have an organised w/e a year where they help clear balsam from waterways

Good idea.


For the sake of the thread, maybe we shouldn't get too side-tracked by off topic concepts, but you might like to google 'the great global warming swindle' channel 4 tv, and comment on a new thread if you wish.

http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/G/great_global_warming_swindle/

 

[victor meldrew]

Moving a plant thousands of miles just because it might look pretty in the garden is not natural which is what happened with Himalayan Balsam and Japanese Knotweed and to say it is is bizarre. People brought in the grey squirrel for the same reason. They were moved over distances that nature could not do.
What is sybiosis?.
Modern man is not generally regarded as part of nature. The natural world is the bit that exists without man's intervention. I sometimes wonder about at what point in our human development we stopped being part of the natural world

Man not part of nature ? Whose definition are you using (surely not the "And man shall have dominion over all"?) quote from the bible!
Sybiotic was an obvious typo, your reference to it doesn't display a good example of netiquette .

A man pulps wood and manufactures paper (artificial)
A wasp pulps wood and manufactures paper (natural)

A man preserves fruit by manufacturing a heavy sugar syrup (artificial)
A bee concentrates sugar into honey (natural)

A man cultivates crops (artificial)
An ant prunes and manipulates fungi to increase fruiting heads (natural).

I could go on all day .
Even the bower bird creates a bower decorated with "Pretty" objects to impress a potential mate !.
Like it or lump it , things are and will continue to be moved around the planet, if the situation suits ,then over growth will happen ,in the fullness of time a balance will be struck.
The world has been in a state of flux since its inception , it relies on change in order to survive.
I'm afraid "the weakest go to the wall" applies today as indeed it always did.

John Wilkinson