Air source heat pumps

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I have an 11kw Mitsubishi ecodan. Eight years old so not as quiet as modern ones.
What sort of running costs do you have and what are the maintenance costs. Please exclude any solar panel subsidy from the calcs. What sort of property and insulation etc. Real world info helps people make informed pragmatic choices. Any investment has to be done open eyed and informed so your info and that of others would be helpful in this regard
 
What sort of running costs do you have and what are the maintenance costs. Please exclude any solar panel subsidy from the calcs. What sort of property and insulation etc. Real world info helps people make informed pragmatic choices. Any investment has to be done open eyed and informed so your info and that of others would be helpful in this regard
It costs me £200 a year for a service but once our if warranty it is hardly worth it.
My house is solid wall built on 1850. Good insulation and double glazing. Underfloor heating in main large lounge and radiators everywhere else.
Running costs differ from day to day but anything between 10 kw to 50 kW on a really cold day. Cost is dependant on your tariff. I use octopus cosy tariff which gives me three lots of hours totalling 8 at 12 p per kW .
 
It costs me £200 a year for a service but once our if warranty it is hardly worth it.
My house is solid wall built on 1850. Good insulation and double glazing. Underfloor heating in main large lounge and radiators everywhere else.
Running costs differ from day to day but anything between 10 kw to 50 kW on a really cold day. Cost is dependant on your tariff. I use octopus cosy tariff which gives me three lots of hours totalling 8 at 12 p per kW .
How are you achieving the insulation on your solid walls ?
 
How are you achieving the insulation on your solid walls ?
Downstairs is a foot thick so don't need it. Upstairs is partly double brick with no cavity. Used internal insulated plasterboard where necessary. A large section is cladding with insulation.
 
What sort of running costs do you have and what are the maintenance costs. Please exclude any solar panel subsidy from the calcs. What sort of property and insulation etc. Real world info helps people make informed pragmatic choices. Any investment has to be done open eyed and informed so your info and that of others would be helpful in this regard
I can’t comment on living with an ASHP, but am going through the process of getting one.

I ended up going with Heat Geek, there’s a free estimate on their website - but that’s what it is, an estimate, but actually quite accurate in my case. They also appear to have a good rep in the various forums. Renew the heating industry - HeatGeek Also lots of really useful info on their website and YouTube.

A proper design will cost £375, deductible against purchase.

Their ‘group’ of independent engineers are backed by a performance guarantee, which is encouraging.

I’ve got an 1840s 600mm thick stone walled listed building, so wall insulation is impractical, impossible, unless you pay a fortune for something like aerogel. However it is not essential, it’s about the things you can do, roof, floor, windows to improve what you can..

My design, just received, means some radiator upgrades, but has a 400% SCOP. It’s not cheap, but we’re on oil, so there is a payback,.

Estimated running costs, £750 per year compared to over twice that on oil.

Now just to go through planning.

Good luck

Simon
 
I can’t comment on living with an ASHP, but am going through the process of getting one.

I ended up going with Heat Geek, there’s a free estimate on their website - but that’s what it is, an estimate, but actually quite accurate in my case. They also appear to have a good rep in the various forums. Renew the heating industry - HeatGeek Also lots of really useful info on their website and YouTube.

A proper design will cost £375, deductible against purchase.

Their ‘group’ of independent engineers are backed by a performance guarantee, which is encouraging.

I’ve got an 1840s 600mm thick stone walled listed building, so wall insulation is impractical, impossible, unless you pay a fortune for something like aerogel. However it is not essential, it’s about the things you can do, roof, floor, windows to improve what you can..

My design, just received, means some radiator upgrades, but has a 400% SCOP. It’s not cheap, but we’re on oil, so there is a payback,.

Estimated running costs, £750 per year compared to over twice that on oil.

Now just to go through planning.

Good luck

Simon
That 750 sounds very low, is there some other factor ? The insulation details for all these installations would I believe prove helpful
 
That 750 sounds very low, is there some other factor ? The insulation details for all these installations would I believe prove helpful
Based on using Octopus cosy, 120sq metre property, small part modern extension, rest as above, EPC E.

Uses Weather Compensation, which seems critical for all I've read, to control the temperature for the flow, ie if it's warm(ish) outside, say 10C, the flow temp is lower than when it's colder , so more efficient.

Simon
 
Based on using Octopus cosy, 120sq metre property, small part modern extension, rest as above, EPC E.

Uses Weather Compensation, which seems critical for all I've read, to control the temperature for the flow, ie if it's warm(ish) outside, say 10C, the flow temp is lower than when it's colder , so more efficient.

Simon
I agree with Penninetrader that does sound extremely low for a house of that size. I am surprised your getting 400% out of a house with a EPC of E.
I only get 340% with an EPC of D.
 
What sort of running costs do you have and what are the maintenance costs. Please exclude any solar panel subsidy from the calcs. What sort of property and insulation etc. Real world info helps people make informed pragmatic choices. Any investment has to be done open eyed and informed so your info and that of others would be helpful in this regard
My electricity use is approx 5500kwh
The 120m2 semidetached house has underfloor insulation and heating on the ground floor.
Blown insulation in the walls and 300mm of insulation in the loft.
I have radiators on the first floor.
I do have PV but of course heat pumps don’t tend to use much PV as the heating is normally needed during periods of low light.
When I decided to install the system running costs were similar to gas which I could have installed.
Regarding maintenance, I’ve never had it serviced in the 10 years it’s been running but I have cleaned the filters and had to replace the hot water pressure tank and a pump.
 
My electricity use is approx 5500kwh
The 120m2 semidetached house has underfloor insulation and heating on the ground floor.
Blown insulation in the walls and 300mm of insulation in the loft.
I have radiators on the first floor.
I do have PV but of course heat pumps don’t tend to use much PV as the heating is normally needed during periods of low light.
When I decided to install the system running costs were similar to gas which I could have installed.
Regarding maintenance, I’ve never had it serviced in the 10 years it’s been running but I have cleaned the filters and had to replace the hot water pressure tank and a pump.
That sounds pretty good, I suppose the devil is in the detail, average Temps and the hours heated plus hot water consumption etc. What surprises me is the low D rating for a quite well insulated property with PV and a heat pump.
 
Based on using Octopus cosy, 120sq metre property, small part modern extension, rest as above, EPC E.

Uses Weather Compensation, which seems critical for all I've read, to control the temperature for the flow, ie if it's warm(ish) outside, say 10C, the flow temp is lower than when it's colder , so more efficient.

Simon
It will be interesting to see how it goes in the real world
 
That sounds pretty good, I suppose the devil is in the detail, average Temps and the hours heated plus hot water consumption etc. What surprises me is the low D rating for a quite well insulated property with PV and a heat pump.
Yes the D rating was a surprise to me but I think the assessor was a bit of a w****r as he seems to have forgotten the floor insulation and the PV was added later.
I wasn’t worried as I only needed to achieve a D to get RHI for installation of the heat pump.
 
The way a house keeps warm with an ASHP is that you match its ability to provide heat as closely as possible to the rate at which the house loses heat. This is usually calculated at the realistic, lowest average temperature day you will experience.

To gain its efficiency benefits, the temperature for the heating water it supplies needs to be as low as possible. You are looking for the sweet-spot where at any time of the year your heat pump is just about keeping you warm. It can't do a quick top-up of heat, so ideally, you keep it operating all the time.

It is often stated that you must have multiple thermostats and control the heat by zoning. This is incorrect and simply leads to some parts of the heating system having to work harder to bring cooler, more remote parts up to equilibrium temperature.

Unless you have a very diligent designer and installer or you are someone who enjoys trying to understand technicalities, from my observations, you will be very disappointed with an ASHP.

If you have a very carefully constructed, simply-designed, modern house with underfloor heating, and a willingness to sort things out by trial and error, it can be an efficient and economical heating system.

I've installed underfloor heating in three houses and we are on our second self-build with an ASHP; 5kW output will be sufficient for our mid-sized house of 120 square metres.
 
Yes the D rating was a surprise to me but I think the assessor was a bit of a w****r as he seems to have forgotten the floor insulation and the PV was added later.
I wasn’t worried as I only needed to achieve a D to get RHI for installation of the heat pump.
For some reason, when doing an EPC for an existing property, floor insulation does not appear to affect the score. In any case, it is usually very difficult for an assessor to find sufficient evidence that the insulation is present.
 
Another thing; with an ASHP, for hot water you have to use a tank with an immersion heater to boost the temperature to around 60 deg which can be expensive. Otherwise the water is only 42 deg max which is not safe in the long term.
With an ASHP, the hot water temperature for showering, washing and bathing is very controllable and although it needs to use an immersion element to top up the temperature, the temperature is usually set to between 50 and 55C; it does not have to be at the same temperature as the radiators or underfloor pipework. It can be set to boost that to 60C+ for about half an hour every four to six weeks to kill off Legionella bacteria.
 
In any case, it is usually very difficult for an assessor to find sufficient evidence that the insulation is present.
This was what it looked like when he did his assessment and you can see the insulation at the edges!
As I said he was a w****r.
IMG_0668.jpeg
 
The way a house keeps warm with an ASHP is that you match its ability to provide heat as closely as possible to the rate at which the house loses heat. This is usually calculated at the realistic, lowest average temperature day you will experience.

To gain its efficiency benefits, the temperature for the heating water it supplies needs to be as low as possible. You are looking for the sweet-spot where at any time of the year your heat pump is just about keeping you warm. It can't do a quick top-up of heat, so ideally, you keep it operating all the time.

It is often stated that you must have multiple thermostats and control the heat by zoning. This is incorrect and simply leads to some parts of the heating system having to work harder to bring cooler, more remote parts up to equilibrium temperature.

Unless you have a very diligent designer and installer or you are someone who enjoys trying to understand technicalities, from my observations, you will be very disappointed with an ASHP.

If you have a very carefully constructed, simply-designed, modern house with underfloor heating, and a willingness to sort things out by trial and error, it can be an efficient and economical heating system.

I've installed underfloor heating in three houses and we are on our second self-build with an ASHP; 5kW output will be sufficient for our mid-sized house of 120 square metres.
Prattling off the top of my head, the underfloor is the key imo due to the low flow temp required to feel comfortable, insulation as for any system is high on the list, balanced heat throughout creates pressure outwards, that contributes to less air movement and again a feeling of comfort, a pretty airtight home, not ridiculously so. The foregoing leaves an unhealthy house of stale air so in combination a simple heat exchanger to import fresh air will do the job and also not unduly affect the pressurising. All of this would make any form of heating more efficient. IMO, the ASHP should be the last on that shopping list unless you can afford to do it all. Insulation and a wooly jumper costs nothing further after purchase, yes ok you have to wash the wooly jumper.
A question, what make of heat pump ? What type of construction will the simple design take in regards materials.
 
For some reason, when doing an EPC for an existing property, floor insulation does not appear to affect the score. In any case, it is usually very difficult for an assessor to find sufficient evidence that the insulation is present.
In that regard the assessment becomes an absolute nonsense, floor insulation is as important as roof insulation in regards heat loss, A photo record of the floor installation and any related work should suffice.Most of this EPC rating work seems to be quite the sham
 
I think these replies are very beneficial for anyone in terms of improving their systems whether heat pump or otherwise. IMO, any grants or help should go in the first instance towards floor insulation and wet underfloor heating. in some cases that would require a lot of work but it would give the best payback in many more ways than money, to experience it would make a convert. You build anything by placing on a firm foundation and seeing an ASHP as the first requirement is in my neck of the woods seen as fur coat and no knickers. Keep the info coming as I for one am learning from it
 

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