AFB Gloucestershire

[rayz_x]

Spoke to an SBI today - the thing that horrified him the most was that as soon as diagnosis was confirmed, they shut up the bees and moved them all off site IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY!! so what's going to happen to all the stragglers? some that may be carrying AFB spores? unless the doomed hive is less than three miles away they're going to beg their way into other hives and then................

It wasn't quite that simple.

The auction didn't start until 12.00. The suspected AFB was not found until at least 2.00.
The site owners made it clear that the bees could not stay on site, so the person on site most qualified to make the decision then decided the bees should leave the site in a specified order and would be subject to a standstill order on arrival back at their place of origin. Professional advice was followed at all times.
It has been said a number of times that there was no diagnosis confirmed but despite this a number of people on here have decided there was. It seems this was on the basis of a 'quiet word' someone had with one person who was not in a position to confirm what had actually happened. Now everyone is doing some 'back-patting' and congratulation for 'checking the facts'. This is not a fact but a 'factoid'.

Factoid - (noun) - An item of unreliable information that is reported and repeated so often that it becomes accepted as fact:

Ray

 

[Hivemaker.]

Good job it was confirmed in time to stop proceedings any further.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Whole thing was a damned fiasco in my view (and our RBI - not very happy at all by the irresponsible decision to move the mees before evening time)

 

[rolande]

The site owners made it clear that the bees could not stay on site, so the person on site most qualified to make the decision then decided the bees should leave the site in a specified order and would be subject to a standstill order on arrival back at their place of origin. Professional advice was followed at all times.

Surely that wasn't their call? Sounding from a distance like the "person on site most qualified to make the decision" was lacking the backbone to stand up to the owners and insist that the colonies wait till evening -which makes you wonder in the light of the fact that you state that he was happy for the bees to be subject of a standstill order "on arrival back at their place of origin".

If there had been no disease issue and the colonies had been sold would the buyers have been expected to pack up their colonies and move them at the fall of the hammer?

 

[rayz_x]

Hi Rolande,

Again this is an assumption based on very little information from one unreliable source.

The bees were not removed in the middle of the day and those with suspected AFB remained until all others had left.

When nucs/colonies have been sold in previous years they do wait until evening before removal.

I am disappointed that a number of people on here seem keen to believe the worst despite so little information. None of the decisions on the day were taken lightly or without careful consideration of the best option. There was never going to be an 'ideal' outcome.

Ray

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Unreliable source? the regional bee inspector for Wales!
It seems obvious that you would be one of those happy to stand there with head in the sand rather than accept there is a serious situation.
Defending the undefendable comes to mind

 

[madasafish]

My view is simple:

the visual signs of AFB are pretty clear.. and the matchstick test (I assume it was done) is a clear indication something might be wrong.


On that basis, the logical and safe thing to do is stop the auction . Period

And then use a field test kit - which is pretty reliable in the case of AFB..


As for criticism of rumours, the real world is you don't stop a bee auction for no reason. Suggesting rumours will not happen as a result is living in a different unreal world.

 

[rayz_x]

Apologies if I have misunderstood but what you said was...

"Spoke to an SBI today - the thing that horrified him the most was that as soon as diagnosis was confirmed, they shut up the bees and moved them all off site IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY!! so what's going to happen to all the stragglers? some that may be carrying AFB spores?"

You didn't say clearly that the Regional Bee Inspector for Wales was on site at the time. If this was the case surely that person could have got involved in the decision? I would be surprised if a person in this position would avoid getting involved in the discussion then later suggest something that was not true.
On the other hand if the Inspector was not on site their source of information was unreliable - as I originally said. I was one of the last people to leave the site and I can personally assure you the bees with suspected AFB did not leave the site in the middle of the day as claimed.

Madasafish - I have only criticised the rumours for their lack of foundation. The auction of live bees was stopped because of suspected AFB. This has been restated a number of times.
This thread is descending into bickering over who said and did what, largely argued by people who were not there and on the basis of second hand information. Any relevant information is confidential and would not be published on here by anyone responsible.
I do not believe there is anything positive to be gained by continuing this thread.

If there are people with real concerns about bee diseases, my personal opinion is that you should be much more worried about the threat from imported Bumblebee colonies.
Approximately 50,000 colonies are imported each year and of those tested a significant proportion contain DWV and Nosema ceranae. It is of course possible that they will bring in other 'cross-species' diseases. There is little control over their import or use and they are not inspected or controlled by Bee inspectors.

If anyone wants to PM me, for example with constructive suggestions for an auction protocol, please feel free.

Regards

Ray

 

[mbc]

If anyone wants to PM me, for example with constructive suggestions for an auction protocol, please feel free.

A good post Ray but wouldn't any constructive suggestions be better aired for discussion on an open forum rather than being confined to pm?

 

[rayz_x]

Thank you

I was mainly concerned to close off the unconstructive debate really. I am sure we are all here for more positive reasons and could have a far more productive discussion than this one has been.

Regards

Ray

 

[Somerford]

A good post Ray but wouldn't any constructive suggestions be better aired for discussion on an open forum rather than being confined to pm?

 

[rayz_x]

Maybe someone should start a new thread? I guess this affects a number of local associations etc. and could affect any sale of live bees?

Ray

 

[VEG]

Should any of the bees have been moved at all?

 

[rayz_x]

Should any of the bees have been moved at all?

Very simple answer is no. It wasn't simple though.
You will need to read through all of the thread really. I don't think it is worth prolonging.

Ray

 

[VEG]

I have read it all thats why I posted the question

 

[rayz_x]

I have read it all thats why I posted the question

The auction site was at an RDA riding school and it was made clear that it was not possible to leave over 20 nucs of bees there until an 'all clear' was given.

I don't know whether anyone could get an auction site where this could be done. If so, there would be questions about security, fairness on the owners who had healthy nucs etc.

Ray

 

[VEG]

The old site may have been better in that respect

 

[mbc]

The auction site was at an RDA riding school and it was made clear that it was not possible to leave over 20 nucs of bees there until an 'all clear' was given.

I don't know whether anyone could get an auction site where this could be done. If so, there would be questions about security, fairness on the owners who had healthy nucs etc.

Ray

In such an event it should be possible to organise a quarantined hospital apiary elsewhere for the duration of any standstill.
Common sense has to prevail and not surprisingly Tabatha and her little pony should take precedence over some insects.

 

[rayz_x]

Veg - re the original site - Maybe - but I doubt if the owners would have allowed the bees to stay. There is a boot sale on the site every week and it is used as a car park.
I don't think it would be secure anyway and 20 nucs of potentially diseased stolen bees could be a problem. I guess if they are on 'lockdown' the site needs to be secure.

However you look at it there is no easy solution.

Ray

 

[Hivemaker.]

However you look at it there is no easy solution.

Twenty nucs, kill them all... and the organizers pay the owners a fixed price compensation, and future bees checked for disease before being brought to the auction.