AFB Gloucestershire

[jenkinsbrynmair]

No easy solution, no but I can't see it was so urgent that the nucs/hives/crisp boxes (if that was true) had to be moved immediately and spread to the four winds ? (haven't we heard of a phenomenon called drifting). Okay, so as my grandmother would say 'does dim daioni mewn codi pais ar ol pisho' (I'm sure MBC will translate for those who are interested) and find some points to build on.
As I have said before, we are very good in this country at a system commonly known as STSDATHHB or 'shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted' (hey! good similie in this case ) look at foot and mouth - the contingency plan wasn't formulated until long after the last carcass had been barbecued (working on that plan got SWMBO her promotion actually!) so now is the time to set up a plan before the next auction
No long lists here, but as part of the risk assesment (I know, I hate the word too - but some are useful) as well as toilets, first aid, fire evacuation and casualty procedures there should have been a disease contingency i.e. a site as near as possible which could be used as a quarantine apiary for all colonies at the auction.
So a lesson should be learnt here and FERA for one should ensure that next time, for any live bee auction there is some kind of plan for isolating the nasties pending further investigation.
Things like the offering of bees for sale in makeshift containers, bees on frames etc should also be looked at IMHO but that is another matter less imprtant than the spread of disease

 

[rayz_x]

Twenty nucs, kill them all... and the organizers pay the owners a fixed price compensation, and future bees checked for disease before being brought to the auction.

Sounds simple but isn't really. Where would the money come from to destroy healthy nucs and pay the owners?

How would you check bees for disease before the auction? How do you know the checked bees are the ones that are brought in? Who would you trust to do the checking? What if the bees seem healthy to the checker then they don't look good when checked at the auction?

How do you decide what is an auction or what is a private sale - most rules can be twisted if you try hard enough.

Careful what you wish for. In 5 years this forum could be dominated by two things; complaints about the unreasonable restrictions on owning, buying, selling and moving bees or complaints about the unfair application of those restrictions.

Ray

 

[mbc]

Mun, it basically comes down to, do we want more, or less, regulation?
I'm for preserving the status quo and hoping that each situation will be dealt with in a suitably responsible manner by those involved without trying to write a 'one size fits all' blueprint of unenforceable regulations.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Mun, it basically comes down to, do we want more, or less, regulation?

Reading this it would appear in the case of auctions we need more regulation.

 

[mbc]

Sensible guidelines I could cope with, but....

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Sensible guidelines I could cope with, but....

but I can't see anything wrong in insisting on a sensible contigency plan in the lines of 'What plan is in place if disease is found; can all hives be left on site for lockdown? if not, indicate the chosen nearby site for isolation and means of transportation/biosecurity' That's just being responsible IMHO

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Sounds simple but isn't really. Where would the money come from to destroy healthy nucs and pay the owners?

How would you check bees for disease before the auction? How do you know the checked bees are the ones that are brought in? Who would you trust to do the checking? What if the bees seem healthy to the checker then they don't look good when checked at the auction?

How do you decide what is an auction or what is a private sale - most rules can be twisted if you try hard enough.

Careful what you wish for. In 5 years this forum could be dominated by two things; complaints about the unreasonable restrictions on owning, buying, selling and moving bees or complaints about the unfair application of those restrictions.
Ray

In the words of my touchy feely management - offering barriers not solutions (a sure fire way of getting dumped with official regulation) far better if we can thrash out a reasonable 'plan' for future auctions and offer a reasonable 'package' we can carry on without too much beureaucracy.

Sensible guidelines I could cope with, but....

but I can't see anything wrong in insisting on a sensible contigency plan in the lines of 'What plan is in place if disease is found; can all hives be left on site for lockdown? if not, indicate the chosen nearby site for isolation and means of transportation/biosecurity' That's just being responsible IMHO
Alternatively, do we really need to see the bees? it's not a racehorse auction is it? We never get the chance to see the bees at the Tivyside auction, what's more important is the SBI's report, maybe added to that a photo of the hive/nuc being sold with them? then you arrange with the vendor to pick up. In Gloucester's case it could just mean a site isolated from the main kit auction to save the hassle of moving them.

How would you check bees for disease before the auction?Who would you trust to do the checking?

SBI?

How do you know the checked bees are the ones that are brought in?

looks like a matter of integrity and trust - if you admit you haven't got that, then you are setting yourself up for tighter regulation

How do you decide what is an auction or what is a private sale - most rules can be twisted if you try hard enough.

If it's on site, all goes through the auctioneer - it can work 'if you try hard enough'

 

[madasafish]

but I can't see anything wrong in insisting on a sensible contigency plan in the lines of 'What plan is in place if disease is found; can all hives be left on site for lockdown? if not, indicate the chosen nearby site for isolation and means of transportation/biosecurity' That's just being responsible IMHO

I would have thought anyone and anything dealing with bees would have a Risk Assessment -- and bee health and diseases would fall under that...

 

[rayz_x]

In the words of my touchy feely management - offering barriers not solutions (a sure fire way of getting dumped with official regulation) far better if we can thrash out a reasonable 'plan' for future auctions and offer a reasonable 'package' we can carry on without too much beureaucracy.

I agree entirely. I also recognise my way of looking at a situation is to work out all of the things that could go wrong in order to eliminate them first.

The only sensible way forward is to self-regulate with clear guidelines and enforcement. This may result in some unpopular rules. A lot on here have said that, in the case of a serious disease problem, there should be a policy of destruction of all nucs on the site, or a place to hold them until an all-clear. I am not sure sales would get many sellers if people read the small print of that agreement.

Ray

 

[Chris B]

Maybe we should move towards the package being the standard way of selling bees? That would more or less avoid potential problems, although granted not 100%.

 

[beebopalula]

Maybe we should move towards the package being the standard way of selling bees? That would more or less avoid potential problems, although granted not 100%.

 

[mbc]

blessed are the package shakers!??!