AFB Gloucestershire

[Chris B]

Currently there is no obligation to log movements of bees at all, a silly situation when trying to control notifiable diseases.

I would be very interested to hear how you think notifiable diseases (AFB & EFB) are spread. Are you seriously saying that colony movements by beekeepers are a significant factor?

 

[Somerford]

I was informed a field test kit had been obtained and it was ascertained AFB was in one of the colonies for sale.


Regards
S

 

[rayz_x]

This seems to have been through the rumour mill several times.

Would a test kit give a definite and clear answer on site? Or would it need to go for further tests?
I am certainly not an expert here but surely if a Bee Inspector in their official role had used a test kit, and it was conclusive, then they would be bound by some sort of confidentiality rules?
I don't really want to make this an extended debate as I know very little fact but I am concerned that small rumours can expand and grow legs.

Ray

 

[CleverBee]

If there was a confirmed case of AFB found, you will see it on the live data maps on BeeBase and in the live AFB reports - that is where you find out if your colonies are at risk and not on rants like this. I am shocked that this post is still going..... please someone put an end to it!

 

[Hivemaker.]

I am shocked that this post is still going..... please someone put an end to it!

You just joined the forum today to post this?

 

[CleverBee]

Literaly, and if you are the moderator of the forum, you should have killed it long ago

 

[Hivemaker.]

Literaly, and if you are the moderator of the forum, you should have killed it long ago

No...i don't think i should, and I'm not going to.

 

[mbc]

No...i don't think i should, and I'm not going to.

 

[BeeJayBee]

AFB was confirmed today in one of the colonies offered for sale at the GBKA auction in Cheltenham. It was a colony from the immediate locality, so a 10km radius and lock down for 6 weeks has been placed on all those who had colonies there on their return to their home apiaries....although it was suggested they isolate them.
They had to remove them as the centre couldn't allow them to remain there...

If there was a confirmed case of AFB found

This seems to have been through the rumour mill several times.

@ CleverBee and rayz_x - I'm astonished that you think a public auction would be halted, and local 'lockdown' announced, to propagate a rumour.

As for Beebase being updated - some technology doesn't always work as quickly and efficiently as we would expect.

I am shocked that this post is still going

I'm glad it is!

And I hope there might be more of them to announce any other outbreaks, because it means we're the first to know of problems that might affect our bees. Rather than to getting angry, trying to brush it under the carpet, or hope it'll go away, surely it's better to know AFB or EFB is in an area so responsible beekeepers can be vigilant.

Disease happens!

Both of the foulbroods are bacterial infections and can only reach a colony on a bee (maybe a drone) or on equipment that hasn't been properly cleaned after being used on an infected colony. A beekeeper can't make his bees get foulbrood, but a knowledgeable beekeeper will recognise the signs and will report their suspicions to the inspectorate as quickly as possible, so as to contain the outbreak.

 

[madasafish]

This seems to have been through the rumour mill several times.

Would a test kit give a definite and clear answer on site? Or would it need to go for further tests?
Ray

As I understand the kit - and having seen it in action last year at a local AFB outbreak- the positive result from a kit - coupled with the appearance of the cells tested- is enough to call it confirmed.

But perhaps someone more knowledgeable than me....?

 

[rayz_x]

BeeJoyful... "I'm astonished that you think a public auction would be halted, and local 'lockdown' announced, to propagate a rumour."

This is not what I have said at all. My point was that this whole thread is based on rumour and speculation.
If a Bee Inspector suspected AFB they would have a duty to stop the sale of live bees. That is as much as anyone could honestly know on Saturday evening when this post started. I am not suggesting the Bee inspector has done anything wrong whatsoever. I am certainly not suggesting the Inspector would 'propagate a rumour'

I don't think anything should be brushed under the carpet either.
What I do think is really unhelpful to all of us is misinformation and scaremongering which casts doubt on anyone's integrity or actions.

Hivemaker - I agree that censorship is a route that needs careful consideration and should be a last resort. However I must agree with some of the above that this thread is unproductive and based on very little information.

Ray

 

[alanf]

...the positive result from a kit - coupled with the appearance of the cells tested- is enough to call it confirmed...

That's certainly the impression I got from inspectors. Before the flow test a sample would have to be sent to the lab, now inspection and a positive test is enough to act on. There may be a formal step of confirmation in the legislation but it's an improvement in most cases to be able to agree control steps on the day.

It does open the question of what is best practice to conduct auctions. Inspection carries with it the implication that something might be found. Assembling bees from many sources before inspecting risks spreading disease. The usual routine of a movement restriction after detection risks stranding all lots at the auction site which is not only impractical but increases the contact time between colonies and risk of disease transfer. Inspection on the day of auction increases risk by doing it at a time of greater passing traffic. If it's not established practice, there should be a clear inspection period before and separate to the auction, perhaps ideally the day before. If inspection on arrival finds disease, that should lead to immediate removal to a safe site nearby and destruction. Any other lots from the same source to be returned to origin, then movement restricted until the original apiary and any others associated with the beekeeper can be inspected. Is it necessary to cancel the rest of the live lots already inspected and return them all to base? It's certainly going to make some bidders wary of buying once it's known lots have been near disease, so probably cancel for commercial reasons as much as risk.

Which leads to the question: is there a way of conducting an auction of live lots without having them present? Inspection, listing and photo all off site. It's how houses, shops and other real estate property is auctioned. If buyers want to see the lots, they can visit by appointment in the days before. Does the transaction gain value from not being exposed to the unnecessary risk of putting lots of diverse origin colonies in the same place? Or does it lose from not being visible on the day? Just a musing but I'd say the likes of eBay and online purchases has made buying on description much more acceptable than it used to be.

 

[CleverBee]

Totally agree with rayz_x!
Like i said earlier, it is the duty of the bee inspectors and the NBU to manage notifiable disease and publish credible information to help prevent the spread of disease and not what someone had heard on the grapevine.

 

[rayz_x]

Thank you Alan - these are probably the questions we all need to look at to move forward productively. There are no easy answers.

Ray

 

[alanf]

...it is the duty of the bee inspectors and the NBU to manage notifiable disease and publish credible information to help prevent the spread of disease and not what someone had heard on the grapevine.

It is, but the situation is not a private visit to an established apiary. It's a public auction where several sellers have brought bees in and had them placed close to a diseased colony. They are owed an immediate explanation of what's been found and the risks. There's little left to be gained by trying to keep it confidential. If it's not openly announced, then word of mouth will quickly spread versions that could be partial.

 

[mbc]

Totally agree with rayz_x!
Like i said earlier, it is the duty of the bee inspectors and the NBU to manage notifiable disease and publish credible information to help prevent the spread of disease and not what someone had heard on the grapevine.

The NBU itself is moving towards devolved responsibility for dealing with foulbrood with the DASH accreditation scheme for beefarmers, and the idea that associations have no responsibility to educate and inform the wider beekeeping community is also ridiculous, FYI this forum represents the biggest unofficial association of beekeepers in the country, and informative threads on previously taboo subjects will do much to remove the fear, myth and legend and scare mongering often involved with foulbrood. We should all be able to deal with it in a responsible manner if we should be so unfortunate that our bees pick it up, and more information about real experiences can only help achieve an enlightened beekeeping public.

A positive LFD is all it takes to confirm foulbrood, definite!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Like i said earlier, it is the duty of the bee inspectors and the NBU to manage notifiable disease

And that's exactly what they did by enforcing a lock down. I'd be concerned as to the provenance of some of the kit on sale too - I have a feeling there may be a few irresponsible beekeepers in that area. It certainly was the case back in the 90's with the border counties when they were trying their best to stop the spread of varroa into Wales.
Seems strange that you feel the urge to join this forum just to derail/ost on this thread?

 

[rolande]

informative threads on previously taboo subjects will do much to remove the fear, myth and legend and scare mongering often involved with foulbrood. We should all be able to deal with it in a responsible manner if we should be so unfortunate that our bees pick it up, and more information about real experiences can only help achieve an enlightened beekeeping public.

Another excellent post from mbc! This has got to be the way forward, by demystify the whole thing we may get to the point where individuals won't experience so much shock-horror at the thought of these diseases being in the same County as their bees. This, while being mindful to not simultaneously develop a sense of false confidence (like some of the 'leave alone' varroa breeders have).

 

[CleverBee]

Thank you mbc for confirming that positive LFD is all it takes to confirm AFB. Away from the ramble about politics and back to the subject of AFB in that instance, I should probably clarify here that no positive AFB diagnosis was made on LFD on Saturday, when this thread started.

 

[madasafish]

Thank you mbc for confirming that positive LFD is all it takes to confirm AFB. Away from the ramble about politics and back to the subject of AFB in that instance, I should probably clarify here that no positive AFB diagnosis was made on LFD on Saturday, when this thread started.

So you are saying that Somerford's post of 10th May "AFB was confirmed today in one of the colonies offered for sale at the GBKA auction in Cheltenham." is incorrect?

Strangely, BeeBase show an AFB case confirmed in April...