Advice on bait hive needed

[Dishmop]

and thinking throwing a box in a quiet corner is more than enough and that nothing else would help.

well I didnt actually throw a box in the corner but it did amount the the same thing. Incomplete and dismantled hive,(3 boxes) new, unused, no wax, no lures. The only smell was wood preservative.

One box had a roof on and was on the ground with side on paving stone which created a gap. No floor.

Bees moved in. Didnt ask then to. Hadnt thought of it as I had already bought a nuc.

 

[Dishmop]

We tried putting a nuc on a ladder to imitate a nice nesting place in the trees as a swarm bait.

Unfortunately it epically failed.

Ben P

come on Ben...... do tell us.

 

[oliver90owner]

Ben,

Too small IMO and the vast majority of those with a useful opinion.

Yes, bees might take up domocile, but for a start it would be too small for a large primary swarm. Even a medium sized one. You have already lengthened your odds of success. About the size of a National brood box is accepted as much better.

I use a 5 or 6 frame jumbo National nuc with a Dartington 1/2 super above. I offer them a super frame (often one with a brood cycle previously) and 4 empty super frames with perhaps just some starter strips of foundation, hang (or stand) it about 2m above the ground and lace it with swarm lure (I have been successfull with proprietary lures but used lemongrass oil on two this last year, both of which attacted a swarm.

The other one failed to collect a swarm, so two out of three was a very acceptable result. They were positioned at one site where bees had been kept previously, one was about a couple hundred metres further along a hedge where I had a colony. Neither were swarms from my bees.

The smaller, probably a cast, was united with another colony recently as the nuc queen was of far better temperament than the other colony. The other will have to overwinter in the bait box, suitably insulated, and now on OMF - the nuc is 6mm ply and the honey box on top only 9mm ply.

All the boxes had solid floors and a smallish entrance - less than 20 square centimetres. The bait hive which did not attract a colony was fairly close (~200m) to an apiary well known for the number of swarms issued each year!

Don't forget the police and local council may call on you to coolec/remove nuisance (but probably not) swarms locally, if they are furbished with your contact details.

Regards, RAB

 

[the naked beekeeper]

Ben,

Too small IMO and the vast majority of those with a useful opinion.

Yes, bees might take up domocile, but for a start it would be too small for a large primary swarm. Even a medium sized one. You have already lengthened your odds of success. About the size of a National brood box is accepted as much better.


A nuc is too small for most swarms.
Besides, it won't take them long to outgrow it.

All the boxes had solid floors and a smallish entrance - less than 20 square centimetres. The bait hive which did not attract a colony was fairly close (~200m) to an apiary well known for the number of swarms issued each year!

Indeed, if you know of a laxidazical (sp!?) beekeeper, do put a bait hive near their apiary!!

I have also found that swarms that have landed on various trees in previous years will swarm again onto the exact same place!! Maybe they can sense the pheremone, I don't know, but there does seem to be some hotspots..


Regards, RAB

..

 

[Vergilius]

Too small IMO

???

Ben P

 

[For want of a better word]

You need charm!

My grandad had an old Victorian chimney pot... tall sooty and black.

This was placed empty on his allotment half a mile from his house and garden hives
The bottom was stood on an old broken Aspidistra stand, and the top covered with a large roofing slate.

Every May he would get a colony moove into it........ must have been his charm?

I got myself into beekeping when an old WBC hive I inherited was comandeered by the nastieist, vicious and most aggressive black bees you would ever wish to meet!

Even my mother in law says I have charm!

 

[Flatters]

???

Ben P

I think Ben that it means that a Nuc box is too small (IMO = in my opinion). If a swarming queen takes half a colony with her then they will need a box that is bigger than half a colony sized box.

Often swarming is caused by running out of space. so you can't expect them to move into a box that is smaller or proportionally the the same as the box they moved out of. Therefore a swarm from a National will look for at least a National sized box, but one with a super on is likely to be more attractive. Attractive is the key word since you are trying to attract a swarm so offer them the best and you may have more chance.

This advise I think is also reflected in post 25.

 

[oliver90owner]

Thanks, Flatters. But post 25? (???). I think you may have meant #24?

Regards, RAB

 

[Flatters]

Thanks, Flatters. But post 25? (???). I think you may have meant #24?

Regards, RAB

indeed #24

 

[Vergilius]

Thanks, Flatters. But post 25? (???). I think you may have meant #24?

Regards, RAB

Thanks

Sorry I stupidly didn't know the abbrieviation "IMO"!

Ben P

 

[clare p]

My neighbour had scout bees from the tbhs and warre hives over the road at the bio dynamic farm buzzing around her front door and trying to get under the tiles hung on the house, I used an old mankey brood box with two old mankey used brood frames one on each end and smeared it with some honey (from the bees over the road) and put some rosemary inside.Iit was then raised up on an old bedside cabinet and an old bar stool to about 8 foot, and after 2 weeks the swarm arrived.
My neighbour made me laugh, the bees had been buzzing around the front door for 2 weeks so the children just learnt to live with them and went in and out of the house as normal. On the day the swarm moved in my lovely little 7 year old neighbour complained to her mum that she "didnt want to go out of the front door because there were so many bees" but as mums do (me included) she dismissed the complaint and then realised when she went to the door that there were thousands moving into the bait hive ! It was covered in bees.
Incidentaly I have treated this swarm with apiguard and had no more than 90 varroa drop off over the 4 weeks treatment. I spoke to the swarms previous keepers and they do not treat for Varroa but plant lots of rosemary and mint (plus other herbs) around the hives. They have been keeping the bees there for years and using their method, rarely loosing a colony. But, they leave them to swarm naturally and just catch the swarm when they can or leave them to go to nature.
I find it really interesting

Clare

 

[Flatters]

Is April the time to set up a bait hive? I assume that it could stay in place until mid/end of August assuming there are no takers?

 

[Rosti]

You could place a simple bait hive in April, but I don't personally. I use both lemon grass oil and a pheromone attractant in my bait hives, both have a limited life (you can easily top up the lemon grass of course) and both need a little warmth, some breeze and lower air humidity to work really well. On that basis I dont set my hives until May, with the pheromone having a 3 month claimed life that gives me through to mid-July with some confidence. Post June the chance of you getting secondaries or casts with lesser numbers becomes greater, but then your chances of a 2011 queen rather than the old queen gets better of course. You pays your money ..... etc. R

 

[mbc]

Most of the native types round here will supercede the old queen from a swarm in the autumn anyway so a prime swarm is far more desirable. Colonies which throw casts are a pain in the aspidestra anyway as they tend to do so annualy( in my experience).
There comes a point when collecting swarms becomes more of a public service than a gain for the beekeeper if you are trying to improve your stock - but saying that I can never turn my nose up from a good prime swarm !

 

[RoofTops]

I'm with mbc. I avoid swarms these days and would give any away I found.

 

[SER]

Rooftops,

I'm still new/naive/daft enough to be interested in swarms and am only down the road from you, so if you get any calls to collect swarms this summer that you aren't interested in you could always pass them my way! ;-)

 

[jallen]

would love to give it a go even if theres a better chances of winning the lotto would it work in a urban invorment

 

[Hombre]

If there are bees about, then it is likely to work. All it needs is for someone to be losing swarms. The secret for success is to ensure that they aren't your bees that are swarming.

 

[Queens59]

I love the thought of collecting swarms - but the council around here will only call the BKA 'niminee'. As I am friends with the Vicar - I have asked if he will call me - they seem to get at least one swarm in the Churchyard a year...