Abelo crown boards

[Madge]

The Abelo CB is a weak point in an otherwise decent product and I do not buy them, but use a 460mm sheet of thick plastic as recommended by B+, or leave poly feeders on as CBs all year.
...
Practically, it would be better to have one central feedhole which could be sealed, perhaps with a screw-thread lid. Lyson do sell a socket and lid for poly feedholes ...

In other words, the five-hole CB set out to answer a question no-one asked, and while we can glue this and saw that and bodge a solution, it would be even more useful if beekeepers picked up the phone and discussed it with Damian at Abelo. ...

I recall ITLD referring to the ability of a few hobby beekeepers to influence manufacturers with pet ideas, ...

Perhaps it's time for the dog to wag the tail: if Abelo were to survey every previous customer ...

...it shouldn't be a massive expense to take them out for a product test run. This blind crownboard might become a popular selling item.

Blimey, Eric - what a long post, and you completely missed the point I made about comparing the efficacy of a wooden crown board with a poly CB in a poly-hive set-up. Your plastic replacement CB is ok - but that wouldn't be my choice (although I use plastic CBs when short of something better).

Your suggestion of a screw-on lid instead of poly plugs will really mess up a good CB, and make feeding fondant above the CB impossible - another hobby beekeeper suggestion. Likewise your suggestion that Abelo should consult previous customers.

A 'blind' CB (one without holes?), GJ, won't bother me - but in the meantime, I like the five-hole CBs and use them.

If anybody doesn't like them - two solutions: seal the plugs, or just don't buy the CBs. Buy your hive as separate elements.

 

[mbc]

They're a bit over complicated but I quite like them, I'll pay postage to anyone chucking them out to ship them to me

 

[Madge]

They're a bit over complicated but I quite like them, I'll pay postage to anyone chucking them out to ship them to me

A third solution! Excellent idea.

 

[Beefriendly]

if Abelo were to survey every previous customer a complete picture would emerge which might result in a better product. The door is already ajar, because in conversation I discovered that Abelo themselves were re-evaluating their crownboard design.

At 10K per mould they need to be pretty sure they get it right. It's not something you can have several designs of to see what the customer wants.
I think the features of the Abelo hives and crown-board are spot on, but are too advanced for most UK hobbyists who seem to struggle with simple concepts like where your underfloor inspection board goes.
As someone who regularly migrates his bees to pastures I really appreciate having a crown-board that doubles as a ventilation screen when I move my bees. I can make it solid or have one hole open for feeding etc etc. What's to dislike?
I was hoping they would be designing one way bee escapes for the holes so you could also use them as a clearing board.

 

[Millet]

I always buy one of anything before ordering more..if i do not like it i will not buy anymore if i like what i have bought i will get more..pretty simple really or am i missing something..

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I recall ITLD referring to the ability of a few hobby beekeepers to influence manufacturers with pet ideas.

Yes, and blaming that for the prolificy of weird and wonderful non standard bits and pieces littering the market, hampering standardisation and adding to the cost of beekeeping equipment in the UK

 

[Angry_Mob]

I was hoping they would be designing one way bee escapes for the holes so you could also use them as a clearing board.

The product listing on Abelo site mentions that you can use a rhombus or 8 way bee escape to make them into a clearing board; I haven't tried it yet but intend to this season.

 

[Murox]

I know there are many different hive sizes - does anyone actually know why the uk in particular has so many variants with non standard parts that seem only to fit one particular hive type? and why is the cost of equipment generally greater in the uk than it is elsewhere ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I know there are many different hive sizes - does anyone actually know why the uk in particular has so many variants with non standard parts that seem only to fit one particular hive type? and why is the cost of equipment generally greater in the uk than it is elsewhere ?

As ITLD said - too many independent suppliers listening to a small number of hobbyists all wanting different 'tweaks' to what was meant to be standard equipment. Thus meaning lads of retooling to produce small batches.

 

[Madge]

Yes, and blaming that for the prolificy of weird and wonderful non standard bits and pieces littering the market, hampering standardisation and adding to the cost of beekeeping equipment in the UK

It was, I think, relatively easy to get a wooden hive standardised. It’s a bit more complicated with poly hives. Various models have different quirks - or, as the new Swienty design, overlook the bee space. No wonder people keep trying to improve the poly hives.

Abelo is the only manufacturer of a National small-footprint poly hive that produce a hive that actually works and requires no modifications. It’s not the bits and bobs that complicates the hive design choices.

 

[Beefriendly]

Thus meaning lads of retooling to produce small batches.

At one time in the USA there were over 1000 patents for different types of hives...
Very few hive types in use today originate from the UK. Of those that originate in the UK the National, Smith (square National), Commercial (will take National Supers), WBC...will again take National Sized frames seem to be the choices in use today.
All t'other hive types and variants are imported ideas from abroad...Langstroth/Dadant/Warre etc.

 

[Murox]

As ITLD said - too many independent suppliers listening to a small number of hobbyists all wanting different 'tweaks' to what was meant to be standard equipment. Thus meaning lads of retooling to produce small batches.

If that really is the case then those suppliers won't stay in business long. But why on earth would any manufacturer invest heavily on the sayso or lobbying of a minority group? As Melifera Crofter pointed out wood is/was relatively easy for people to work with. With poly and clever marketing the manufacturer has you by the short and curlys.

 

[Millet]

I know there are many different hive sizes - does anyone actually know why the uk in particular has so many variants with non standard parts that seem only to fit one particular hive type? and why is the cost of equipment generally greater in the uk than it is elsewhere ?

Probably because everyone in this country is taxed to death..i know of one company that had to up the prices of there products to compensate for there higher VAT costs..look at the price of car fuel over here compared to the other countries through ours being taxed to death..

 

[Madge]

If that really is the case then those suppliers won't stay in business long. But why on earth would any manufacturer invest heavily on the sayso or lobbying of a minority group? As Melifera Crofter pointed out wood is/was relatively easy for people to work with. With poly and clever marketing the manufacturer has you by the short and curlys.

What I meant, Murox, is that it was relatively easy to standardise wooden hives - and, yes, because it's easy to work with wood and to create a standard design.

Then poly arrived, and manufacturers tried to interpret the standard design of a wooden National in polystyrene, and that's where the trouble started with loads of designs - particularly with National hives rather than Langstroths because of National's bottom bee space. Some, like the new Swienties, are rubbish (not the old ones). Others started making huge behemoths, and yet others have entrance reducers that blow away in the wind, or huge landing porches, or are vulnerable to bees chewing the poly - and all of them try to find a solution for the National that works.

PS: ... and only Abelo's design is similar to the standard National design.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

i know of one company that had to up the prices of there products to compensate for there higher VAT costs..look at the price of car fuel over here compared to the other countries through ours being taxed to death..

They have VAT on the continent too - a lot more rates, some lower, many higher.
The price of fuel has more to do with the government piling on the fuel duty - which of course, does, to some degree affect the monetary amount of VAT due

 

[Jimmy]

Mellifera crofter
Beespace fine for me on the new swienty boxes, no issues with brace comb. Although almost all of my supers have Manley frames which get so tightly propolised together that lifting off the top box doesn't budge the frames below.
Curved top lip on the new box and lack of a rebate on the base of the box (same as old design?) both problems for me, but not great enough to put me off.

 

[Madge]

Mellifera crofter

Beespace fine for me on the new swienty boxes, no issues with brace comb. ...

Brace comb is not a problem - it’s the lack of a bee space above the the lugs. The frames can become propolised to the box above. It’s probably not noticeable if you use a queen excluder or only one deep brood box. (But I’ve mentioned this before - several times!)

 

[Courty]

Thank you everyone for your helpful suggestions and thought provoking comments in response to my post, much appreciated.
I have a second Abelo poly hive ready for a split double brood box later this year, nature willing. I’ll play with the waiting crown board to see what I want to do.
I thought one use of the plastic “grates” was for propolis collection, I don’t know if they will propolise it if there is a poly disc above it.
Plenty of suggestions to make the board easier to use anyway.

Cheers

Courty

 

[Madge]

... I thought one use of the plastic “grates” was for propolis collection, I don’t know if they will propolise it if there is a poly disc above it. ...

Oh, yes - they'll propolise it - some colonies more so than others.

But it's not a problem. If you need to use the plastic grates for ventilation, just bend the discs slightly when the propolis is cold, and it will pop out.

 

[JazzJPH]

I've just skimmed through this thread again as I have an Abelo poly crown board and the five discs mean I have to keep it upright all the time or they'll fall off.

I noticed PH mentioned replacing with a ply crown board. Someone else mentioned clear plastic (acrylic/polycarbonate). It does seem with the size of the roof that insulation differences would be negligible.

I like the idea of a transparent crown board. I think I read also on the forum to frame the plastic sheet for top bee space. Any maximum thickness for the frame?